beenba

Hey guys, so I have a turbo civic running eCtune, on the original v1 ostrich, and a chipped P28 ecu.

The issue (as I have determined it) is that the fuel pump will not prime while the engine is cranking. It seems to be intermittent. When I go Key on, pump runs for 2 seconds as planned, and if I let the car sit for a few seconds (all the fuel pressure bleeds away) and try and crank, the engine will not start.

I have replaced the main relay with a knowing working one.

I then figured the sensors in the distributor were bad, (not sending the ECU info that the motor is cranking), so I replaced with a working spare and the issue still happens.

I have a full custom wire tuck, so I figured a wire from the dizzy to ECU went bad. I checked them all and they are all good.

I have a spare ECU, replaced that and the issue still happens.

I even have a spare Ostrich licensed to eCtune, I swapped it over and the issue still occurs.

I then took my ECU and Ostrich and installed it into a spare (beater) civic. It appears that the issue followed the ECU and Ostrich.

I put a ohm meter to A7, and when the issue is happening, the ECU is not supplying ground for fuel pump relay....
So I am now thinking that something in eCtune is bad...anyone had a similar experience? There is nothing else I can think of.


Sorry for the novel, just wanted to give all the info.
Thanks


Edit: I should add that the car now also goes lean when you stab the gas (say 2% TPS to 30%)...the AFR's will go lean for 1/2 a second while the car is studdering, and then it eventually picks up. Throttle response is terribad. I doubt this is tip-in related, and my map hasn't changed significantly in years....

beenba

Well to post an update, I've replaced the ribbon cable and the batteries in both Ostrii. Even tried a 3rd chipped ECU I did.

Took the car for a short drive, (1/2 mile), and it just died. Injectors cut out, and wouldn't fire unless it sat for about 5 mins.
It was getting fuel pressure but the injectors just weren't opening it seems.

This truly has me baffled.

beenba

100+ views and no help. Guess I'm on my own for this one.

Been playing with it on/off this weekend, still can't pinpoint the issue. I've disconnected all the inputs to the ECU (D10, D12, D14, B6) with no luck (figured something may have been shorting out).

20 mins ago I had the car idling and it just died all of a sudden. When cranking it would just make the odd spudder and not fire. Connected the ostrich back to eCtune (left the ostrich connected to the ECU also), I did not read the map or put a new map on the car, and it fired right back up.

If I can prove its the ostrich/eCtune I would gladly buy s300, but I cant pinpoint it!

The odd thing is, I made a P30 eCtune map for my bone stock B16 civic, and it runs it fine, no stalling or anything....

beenba

Put my goPro under my hood tonight, and can confirm that the FPR and fuel pressure is bang on. not the issue.

Burned my eCtune to a chip to rule out the ostriches, same issue.

I'll be swapping out the injectors tomorrow to stock ones to see if it remedies the issue.
At this point it has to be clogged/dirty injectors.

The AFRs sweep lean then rich when I go from 5% to 20% TPS...i'm thinking they are not "misting" the fuel in, and just squirting it in.....i dunno...my theory at least.

PyroProblem

Check the capacitors inside the ecu. I've experienced them go bad and cause very similar issues.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

MAP sensor maybe? Easy check if you can source one from a friend or junkyard.

PyroProblem

https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...1159611/page2/

Check this out and open up the ecu. Inspect the capacitors for any abnormalities and replace. If 1 looks bad, I would replace them all since they're cheap.

beenba

I'll take a look at the caps tonight. I have 3 chipped ECU's (I do them myself, have for years), so I doubt all 3 are bad but I'll at least check.

The stalling and no-fuel during crank issue has seem to gone away. I have no idea why, but I did make a new eCtune calibration from scratch...maybe that had something to do with it.

Got the injectors swapped over last night and the lean issue is "better". It still goes lean for a split second on sudden acceleration, but not as bad as with the 1000cc injectors. It will be at 14.5 and when I give it some gas it then dip to 16-17 for a second, and then jumps to like 12-11. It hesitates a bit still but not as bad as a 1000cc.

I cant seem to tune it out either. Going to burn a crome basemap tonight to make sure its not something to do with eCtune.

I also swapped out the TPS for *****, no change.

I have a GM 3 bar on the car, it appears to be working fine though (i have a vacuum gauge in the car also).... I could put a stock map back in I suppose to test.

PyroProblem

Do you replace the caps when you chip ecus? If not and they're original, Id definitely look there first. It would be quite a coincidence if they all were going bad, but stranger things have happened.
Mine would not prime my pump intermittently so it was difficult to track down. I don't really see how a tune can cause your fuel pump not to prime intermittently.

Isn't the "throttle tip in" table supposed to address the momentary lean condition when you open the throttle suddenly?

beenba

throttle tip in (from my understanding) is more for when you go from low TPS to high TPS (like 80% plus). I did try playing with it with no changes though.

I usually only change out the main cap C1. Never had any issues, but I think I'll start replacing those extra ones too now.

Haven't really looked at the car the past few days cause I'm so sick of it. I'll get back to it this weekend and try some things.

VegasInvasion

Well there's your problem.
Start over with a new harness, and don't mess with it.

Every wire tuck I've ever seen, regardless if it's professionally done, ends up with constant wiring issues.
The ONLY legitimate option is to have a completely custom wiring harness made.

beenba

I see where you are coming from however this is a full custom harness I made myself back in 2010. Wiring is my bread and butter and I can say with high confidence it is not a harness issue.

After all this I bet it will be something silly like a fuel filter or fuel pump issue. It just has me baffled as I would expect a pressure drop if that was the cause.

I did put a new walbro 400lph in the tank last year, but I inspected it this winter and everything was fine.

PyroProblem

Maybe put a test light on the fuel pump to verify its receiving power? I know you said it primed for 2 seconds normally but then it doesn't run during cranking.
Weird...good luck fixing it.
BTW you can use noid lights to see if your injectors are getting a signal to open.

beenba

Thanks for the tips. It seems now the no-start issue has gone away.

I am struggling with the sudden lean spike when cruising and I get on the gas a bit.
When it happens, fuel pressure does not drop so thats why I think the pump and regulator are OK (walbro 400lph and aeromotive a1000 on firewall), but I've swapped back to stock injectors so aside from a tuning/wiring/computer issue I'm not sure. I've tried 3 computers, several tunes, and the wiring ohm'ed out good.

Could a ignition issue cause it to go lean?

This weekend I hope to play a little with the car. Going to check the fuel filter and take the return line off my custom fuel cell to make sure I have good flow.

PyroProblem

The momentary mean condition should be able to be tuned out. I forgot what settings its in. I thought it was throttle tip in or something of a similar term.

A faulty ignition could cause a misfire in which the o2 sensor would pick up as a lean condition due to the unused oxygen content in the exhaust.
Intermittent no starts can be tricky to diagnose.
I would go ahead and put a little dummy light on the fuel pump connector @ the pump and verify it stays lit up anytime the pump is in. Next time you have a no start condition and you suspect the pump, you'll know right away if the pump is getting power from the main relay or not.
I had to do this on a vehicle one time to help troubleshoot a crank sensor and fuel pump due to an intermittent long crank and no start condition.

beenba

Well after putting in new plugs and swapping plug wires with my other car, the lean issue got way better and is back to normal now. This was with stock injectors.

For ***** I swapped back the 1000cc injectors and the issue is back and very bad misfires etc when on load. These injectors must need cleaned and are likely what fouled the plugs out too. Going to see how much to clean them or may just buy new ones.

I hope I see the light at the end of the tunnel, making progress it seems.

PyroProblem

Anything is possible. Fuel Injector Connection can clean and flow your injectors. I've dealt with them before.
So with your stock injectors installed, no more fuel pressure bleed off after key on priming?
If not, I think you found your problem ☺.
Good luck!

beenba

to update this (if anyone cares), the injectors were clogged and caused the lean conditions...damn ethanol in our fuel up here gummed up over winter.

And I had a bad intermittent distributor which was causing the no-start (no fuel prime) issue. (turns out the "good spare" i was testing with was also bad...go figure).