High Compression D-series super bogging help?
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From: grand rapids, mi, usa
High Compression D-series super bogging help?
So, I have a D16z6 with the super high dome pistons everyone was talking about a while back. Figure it is 12.5:1 or higher.
Anway, this is in the rally car, and I have an event coming up in 15 days.
The car starts and idles fine, but it BOGS HORRIBLY under throttle, at least when it is cold. The warmer the engine gets, the less it bogs. When I am full throttle for a while (like on a stage) I would say the motor is only 10% bogging, so it is almost usable.
When it is cold, or after I have idled for a while, It barely moves.
The complete setup is:
d16z6/w high compression dome acura pistons
dc sports header
powerflo cat
intake
stock p28 ecu, although I tried a Kenji chipped p28 (b16 program) and the same thing happened.
Sunoco Turbo Blue 104octane fuel
Compression test yields 290-300 in all cylinders
Anyone have any ideas?
Anway, this is in the rally car, and I have an event coming up in 15 days.
The car starts and idles fine, but it BOGS HORRIBLY under throttle, at least when it is cold. The warmer the engine gets, the less it bogs. When I am full throttle for a while (like on a stage) I would say the motor is only 10% bogging, so it is almost usable.
When it is cold, or after I have idled for a while, It barely moves.
The complete setup is:
d16z6/w high compression dome acura pistons
dc sports header
powerflo cat
intake
stock p28 ecu, although I tried a Kenji chipped p28 (b16 program) and the same thing happened.
Sunoco Turbo Blue 104octane fuel
Compression test yields 290-300 in all cylinders
Anyone have any ideas?
MiG-21 superfan
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 8,628
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: High Compression D-series super bogging help? (mattjohnston)
how do the plugs look? You need to see how the combustion is doing, too rich/ lean...
That motor should run fine, albeit not at its best power potential, with a stock p28 ecu and those p29 pistons...I temporarily am running a stock p28 with a heavily modified version of your type of setup and it runs perfectly fine everyday on 93/94 octane.
Also, those pistons, unless you milled your z6 head significantly, should yield only 11.6-11.8:1 compression.
The bottom line is you need to tune it and get atleast hondata s100...its only like $250!
That motor should run fine, albeit not at its best power potential, with a stock p28 ecu and those p29 pistons...I temporarily am running a stock p28 with a heavily modified version of your type of setup and it runs perfectly fine everyday on 93/94 octane.
Also, those pistons, unless you milled your z6 head significantly, should yield only 11.6-11.8:1 compression.
The bottom line is you need to tune it and get atleast hondata s100...its only like $250!
MiG-21 superfan
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 8,628
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: High Compression D-series super bogging help? (builthatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by builthatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, those pistons, unless you milled your z6 head significantly, should yield only 11.6-11.8:1 compression.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattjohnston »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It wont run on 93 octane, it knocks like craaazyy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The question remains...did you mill your head? With a properly tuned hondata, it should be possible to run 93/94 with those pistons and up to maybe 20 thou off the head, even with their weak design...but, again, even a stock p28 should be able to adequately handle a z6 with p29's and no major milling or decking...
Where is your base ignition timing and fuel pressure?
Did you double check your static timing on the sprocket side?
This type of behavior is usually from WAY over rich, sudden retarded timing, or waaaay too cold plugs for conditions...but, it is hard to foul plugs with such high compression, unless you have your FPR jacked way up or something...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattjohnston »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It wont run on 93 octane, it knocks like craaazyy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The question remains...did you mill your head? With a properly tuned hondata, it should be possible to run 93/94 with those pistons and up to maybe 20 thou off the head, even with their weak design...but, again, even a stock p28 should be able to adequately handle a z6 with p29's and no major milling or decking...
Where is your base ignition timing and fuel pressure?
Did you double check your static timing on the sprocket side?
This type of behavior is usually from WAY over rich, sudden retarded timing, or waaaay too cold plugs for conditions...but, it is hard to foul plugs with such high compression, unless you have your FPR jacked way up or something...
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From: grand rapids, mi, usa
Re: High Compression D-series super bogging help? (builthatch)
Stock everything, except what is listed.
The plugs are NGK BKR7E I believe, the colder ones.
The head was decked by a machine shop, but not milled anything significant.
Stock fuel pressure, so it shouldnt be super rich.
I will double check the timing tonite. But I dont think that is it. I did an entire rally like this, and once it is hot, and full throttle for a few miles, it is almost ok.
I dont have any codes, so I doubt it is the ECT sensor.. Unless it could go bad without my ECU tellin me.
The plugs are NGK BKR7E I believe, the colder ones.
The head was decked by a machine shop, but not milled anything significant.
Stock fuel pressure, so it shouldnt be super rich.
I will double check the timing tonite. But I dont think that is it. I did an entire rally like this, and once it is hot, and full throttle for a few miles, it is almost ok.
I dont have any codes, so I doubt it is the ECT sensor.. Unless it could go bad without my ECU tellin me.
MiG-21 superfan
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 8,628
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: High Compression D-series super bogging help? (mattjohnston)
so you should really be at around 11.8-12.1, depending on the amount that they milled for straightness...
Dude, honestly, I would, after you check the static and ignition timing, if all that is correct, take this thing to a dyno and peep the a/f...make sure its not super lean or rich or something is going on in the mid rpm and cleaning the plugs later on so you cant read the plugs accurately.
BTW, those bkr7e-11 might be a tad too cold, especially if you are running that high octane fuel, BUT...that is not the problem here, im just offering an opinion...
Do not give in an keep running this thing like this, lets figure this out...
Dude, honestly, I would, after you check the static and ignition timing, if all that is correct, take this thing to a dyno and peep the a/f...make sure its not super lean or rich or something is going on in the mid rpm and cleaning the plugs later on so you cant read the plugs accurately.
BTW, those bkr7e-11 might be a tad too cold, especially if you are running that high octane fuel, BUT...that is not the problem here, im just offering an opinion...
Do not give in an keep running this thing like this, lets figure this out...
MiG-21 superfan
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 8,628
Likes: 3
From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: High Compression D-series super bogging help? (StyleTEG)
hmm...the lack of overlap is def hindering the motor in terms of power, but it should not make it run as bad as the postee is describing-
I ran stock cam for a short time with p29's and had no issues such as he is having...
I ran stock cam for a short time with p29's and had no issues such as he is having...
Honda-Tech Member
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Re: High Compression D-series super bogging help?
Get a tune. It seems like your AFR's are to rich. When the car heats up it should lean out. That's why it runs without bogging at WOT. How do the plugs look?
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