BfromSD

how dose this happen? I think it is from having a stock oil pan un-baffled. Im pritty sure it happed when I was running through the gears pritty hard and not letting the throttle body close all the ways to keep it in boost. also reving it to 8000rpms [IMG][/IMG]

the set-up 430hp/305tq at 19psi t4/04e
ls-V
stock block with 9:1je pistons and eveything ballanced
head is a stock 2000b16 except for REV valve train
mains, rods, and head studs are ARP

BfromSD

bump for the night.

Enzo Speed

Those don't look spun to me. The tangs aren't even flat, so I don't see how they could have spun.

Either way, they're definitely beat to ****. Could be due to a couple of things. Oil pump failure comes to mind. Or maybe the wrong viscosity of oil? Any type of oiling failure would cause journal-to-bearing contact.

Or maybe you had an unbalanced crank pulley and/or crappy aftermarket pulley (Unorthodox...)

d16dcoe45

Yeah--those aren't spun, damaged yes, but not spun.

BfromSD

the oil/water pumps, bearing, all seals and gaskets in head and block were replaced at time of engine build. im running a CTR pully I had balanced and it was dead on center from the factory so it sould be good. I am gonna try a morso oil pan, dose it really matter if I get the steel one over the alumim and should I get the 5.5qt pan? I hurd the deeper pans line the 5.5 were kinda for an american car setup o help reduce crank slap, is this true?


the metal shaving ran through my motor enough to stop the flow of oil through the vtec solinoid, do I need to take the head off for cleaning or just slap the crank back in with new bearings?

thanks the help it gose a long way. my spelling sucks but I am driving at work while I typed this.

BfromSD

oil has been moble1 5w-30 or 10w-30 sence motor was broke in and changed at no more than 3000miles.

Flashmn

Maybe bearing clearances.

BfromSD

the bearings are the same colors as the orginal ones I took out. I also use plastic gauge to make sure they were all in spec.

Enzo Speed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Enzo Speed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or maybe you had a...crappy aftermarket pulley</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spicyEM1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> im running a CTR pully</TD></TR></TABLE>


That's part of it.

Enzo Speed

You were using an un-dampened pulley which is a seemingly controversial subject on h-t. Much arguing here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1354739&page=1

d16dcoe45

The chances of oil pump starvation scoring EVERY main bearing is pretty slim. You may hurt one or two, but this looks like another issue. How do the rod bearings look? What was the oil pressure like? When the motor was built, was the block and crank passages cleaned adequately?

Bud's Machine

How do the rod bearings look?

DAgsr

no harmonic dampner in a ctr pulley, you should invest in a fluidamper or ATI damper. with no damper all the little vibrations slowly tear away at your bottom end

BfromSD

the rod bearings actually looked pretty good I will have to get some pics up later tonight...

about the ctr pulley being at fault I don't believe that honda would make such a part and then place it on their race spec motors. also with so so many after market pulleys being used with out the dampener I think it would be a bigger known no no then it is. also I have two other 300+ bseries friends that have been running the pulley trouble free for longer than me. ether way the pulley will not be used again. thank you guys for you're input it is a big help.

unknown0001

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spicyEM1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">about the ctr pulley being at fault I don't believe that honda would make such a part and then place it on their race spec motors. also with so so many after market pulleys being used with out the dampener I think it would be a bigger known no no then it is. also I have two other 300+ bseries friends that have been running the pulley trouble free for longer than me. ether way the pulley will not be used again. thank you guys for you're input it is a big help.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I've been running the ctr n1 pulley for about 5k and have a few friend running the same one for a year or two now and with no problems at all.

Honda designed the crank pulley for endurance and circuit races, which the engine would be rebuilt for the next race...unlike our cars the pulley is on there for good unless you want to replace it or do your next rebuild to be safe.

ctr n1

DAgsr

the damper is a very big known no no, just overlooked. engine harmonics are very important to the longevity. you dont see people building boosted cars, making decentpower running a ctr pulley or an unorthodox pulley. if you want your motor to last ditch the ctr pulley

Bud's Machine

don't think it was an oil pump. the rod bearings are the last to get oil. the block supplies the mains and then it goes through the crank to the rod bearings.

looks to me like it sucked a little bit of air. it gets to the mains first, most of the air leaves at the mains as this is the first place for it to get out. air is real thin, the .002 clearance in your main bearings is like a one foot door to air. by the time it gets slung around through the crankshaft galleys to your rod jounals most of the air can be gone. i see it alot in rally cars. you need more capacity in your oiling system. make sure you are running the restrictor between the block and head.

bob

BfromSD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bud’s Machine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">don't think it was an oil pump. the rod bearings are the last to get oil. the block supplies the mains and then it goes through the crank to the rod bearings.

looks to me like it sucked a little bit of air. it gets to the mains first, most of the air leaves at the mains as this is the first place for it to get out. air is real thin, the .002 clearance in your main bearings is like a one foot door to air. by the time it gets slung around through the crankshaft galleys to your rod jounals most of the air can be gone. i see it alot in rally cars. you need more capacity in your oiling system. make sure you are running the restrictor between the block and head.

bob</TD></TR></TABLE>


ya ya that is what I first thought, sucks tho. eather way im gonna get the baffled oil pan and a harmonic dampner.

anyone know of a good place to order an ATI or fluidampner pulley from?

JDM_Ej

Check the sponsors section. There is someone in there selling an excellent harmonic balancer/crank pully.

If your looking for Fluidamper, check out Endyn. (www.theoldone.com)

Scott_Tucker

The babbit coating on bearings does need to break in and it will be shiny after they have but those look beat to ****. If you look at one of those bearings and you see that it has that cracked looking surface that is from the bearing getting pounded. It also looks like there is some galling where metal to metal contact was made but not enough to actually spin the bearings in the bore. I would definately check clearances. Make sure you measure the main bores and the crank pins so you don't get the wrong bearings.

Scott_Tucker

I just noticed something. The front and rear bearings are only worn down to the babbit. The center ones are worn down to copper. Your crankshaft is bent.

Takumi Fujiwara

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scott_Tucker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just noticed something. The front and rear bearings are only worn down to the babbit. The center ones are worn down to copper. Your crankshaft is bent.</TD></TR></TABLE>

When a crankshaft is "bent," is it something that should be obvious to the machine shop that is balancing it?

...and is this fixable? i.e. taking off more material in certain areas? Or is it garbage?

NathanielH

good eye

Scott_Tucker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

When a crankshaft is "bent," is it something that should be obvious to the machine shop that is balancing it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Any machine shop should check the crank for straightness and all the journals for proper size and/or wear before balancing. It doesn't mean they did, though. They also could have dropped it at one point along the way.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

...and is this fixable? i.e. taking off more material in certain areas? Or is it garbage?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can straighten the crank by 'normalizing' it in a cleaning oven. Any reputable machine shop should have one. This relieves the stress in the crank and should straighten it out - but maybe not all the way. It may need to be reground undersize or it may even be cracked.

The crank should be checked for cracks with either a wet or dry magnetic particle inspection (magna-fluxed). The crank can be preliminarily checked for cracks by holding the crank suspended and rapping the end of the crank against the ground. If cracked, it will not resonate or 'ring'.

This is not a replacement for magna-fluxing.

Scott_Tucker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NathanielH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good eye </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks.