on the other board..someone says that you can't put aftermarket forged pistons in an H22. also said the only thing to do is get pistons from a prelude Type S. if it won't fit, then how come companie's like JE make pistons for them then?

 

that has got to be the dumbest thing I have heard.

 

this is true. it's not that forged pistons don't fit, it's just that the aluminum piston doesn't work well with the sleeve of the H22.

 

That's correct. You can use OEM Honda pistons with the stock cylinder liners. But aftermarket forged pistons will destroy the FRM cylinder liner material. Therefore you must resleave the block in order to use forged pistons in any H22A motor.

Andrew

 

also...st00pid from the other forum says that 92-96 H22a's don't have sleeves, but have only aluminum cylinder walls. anyone want to take a look at this?

 

BULLSHIT..... about the fiber-reinforced metal (FRM) cylinder sleeve....it is used by the not only the Prelude, but the NSX also....Its cost and power / space efficiency are both half way between cast-iron liner and Nikasil, which is the **** used widely in two-stroke motorcycles...A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted into the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrates with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than an iron liner, thus improves revs and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength. The bottom line of this all is, the NSX uses said cylinder composition AND has forged aluminum pistons. <u>Honda themselves uses FRM and forged slugs in a FACTORY CAR, so I would venture to guess you'll be straight doing so in your H22.</u>





[Modified by builthatch, 11:07 PM 9/4/2002]

 

I am going through the same headache myself. I will probably resleeve, just for the peace of mind and added strength for boost. But i talked to two reputable shops that said i didn't have to resleeve, yet everyone on this site says different. Before you flame me the two shops are Importbuilders.com and Eip Tuning. Import builders has run forged pistons in a couple of their customer's cars with no problems and Eip has a project car with forged pistons.

 

i'm currently being flamed on super honda.com becuase i said to run forged pistons. so do 92-96 have sleeves?

 

please read my last post, but about the 92-96 h22a, i believe they DO not have frm liners...they are iron

 

thanks for the info

 

There has always been mixed opinions on this topic. I just rebuilt my engine and decided to play it safe with some type s pistons that where prepped and ceramic coated by Swayne Coatings. I say pass on the forged pistons and get some type S.

 

swain tech rocks! those type s pistons are good, but not for boost...GSTEG, give me the link to that **** on s*perhonda, ill show them


[Modified by builthatch, 11:43 PM 9/4/2002]

 

iron is magnetic right??? well i currently have my h22 apart and the sleeves are definatly not magnetic.

from what i can find out in my reasearch is that the h22 has nakisil coating on the frm sleeves. the coating is so thin that even honing will destroy it and cause the piston to wear away at the sleeve eventually destroying the engine. honda can put forged pistons in b/c of the nakisil coating and the fact that the piston skirts themselves are coated.

even the people at JE said not to use their pistons in a h22 w/o sleeving the block


[Modified by Furry, 10:27 PM 9/5/2002]

 

the main reason is also that over time, the heat and pressure tends to cause the FRM to become like a sticky substance. So over time because of this, it will cause the pistons to create heat and cause your engine to glue/lock up.

 

Not true. Honda made .25overbore pistons for the h22a.
the h22a does however run the closest piston-wall tolerances of any motor i have
ever seen or heard of at .0001" vs say a b18c which is .0008-.0014

 

stock honda pistons are not forged, and the skirts have a low friction coating on them so they can do that.

uncoated forged pistons WILL destroy the h22 block. i cant count how many engines i have see torn apart on po.com b/c of this

 

if anyone wants to argue..here is the link
http://www.superhonda.com/forum/show...threadid=60022

 

Quote by wrong guy---"stock honda pistons are not forged, and the skirts have a low friction coating on them so they can do that.

Stock NSX pistons are infact forged, coated or not, they are forged. STOCK, from HONDA, FORGED..and what's more, a stock NSX with stock forged pistons uses an frm cylinder liner, the same frm liner the 97+ Prelude uses...

 

another quote (wrong, suprise) by wrong guy-iron is magnetic right??? well i currently have my h22 apart and the sleeves are definatly not magnetic.
from what i can find out in my reasearch is that the h22 has nakisil coating on the frm sleeves. the coating is so thin that even honing will destroy it and cause the piston to wear away at the sleeve eventually destroying the engine. honda can put forged pistons in b/c of the nakisil coating and the fact that the piston skirts themselves are coated.

even the people at JE said not to use their pistons in a h22 w/o sleeving the block


Quote me correctly please. h22a, 92-96, has iron sleeves I BELIEVE, anyway, 97+ prelude liners; They are not nikasil, they are frm, an entirely different treatment that I thoroughly and correctly explained previously.





[Modified by builthatch, 11:00 AM 9/7/2002]

 

builthatch

 

Does the B20B/Z (not the prelude B20) use fiber reinforced cylinder walls. I know there thicker, but don't they also use that??

 

In my hand I hold the Factory Honda '94 Prelude Service manual. In the manual it describes the block as "made of aluminum alloy using fiber reinforced metal (FRM) Sleeves".

 

Quote by Builthatch- "please read my last post, but about the 92-96 h22a, i believe they DO not have frm liners...they are iron Hey, Ill admit, I was not sure! thanks for the correction.

 

Builthatch, you are wrong.

Forged aluminum pistons will indeed have problems with the FRM sleeves. Honda circumvents this problem in the NSX (and S2000, by the way), by coating the forged aluminum pistons with iron in both of those engines.

I had always assumed that the 4th generation H22's did not have the FRM lining, since they are closed deck. The FRM lining gives the bores added strength, which allowed an open deck design (better cooling & less weight) when going into the 5th generation. However, H22Bubble, you seem to have pretty strong evidence otherwise. Bears looking into more, I think.


[Modified by Daemione, 2:56 PM 9/7/2002]