granada sol

What Is the difference between Lucas and Bosch type Injectors?
Low Impedance vs. High Impedance?
What size / flow rate is needed for what application / horsepower rating?

What do I need for a forced induction, B20, to achieve around 800 horsepower?

loudassVTEC

As far as an 800hp b20, you'll need a sleeved block, with forged internals, a heavy block girdle, arp everything. You're gonna need low compression pistons, that are probably 87mm bore. You will need a VTEC head that has work done. After that, you'll need a very good turbo kit (Full-Race), and a huge turbo, like a GT-42R, with a huge exhaust housing. A very good 3" exhaust, and some extensive tuning. You will prolly need to run race fuel. Methanol injection helps. Your ignition will need some modification, as well as a fuel sell, a huge fuel line, a huge fuel rail, and a big return line. You'll need some very big injectors (possibly 2 per cylinder), and a very strong fuel pump or two. You prolly need more, you may need less. I've personally never seen an 800hp b-series on the street. Only at race tracks is where I've seen them, and I've never seen or asked what they did to support that amount of power. Sorry if I left anything out...it is a very general question, that could be answered a bunch of different ways.

loudassVTEC

rceng.com has some injector information. They can describe it better than I can.

granada sol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by frankin_henry &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What do I need for a forced induction, B20, to achieve around 800 horsepower?</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry, i was referring to the injectors... I have the rest pretty much figured out, I am clueless as far as the fuel requirements for this build.

As you could prolly tell, my project hasn't been built yet, right now i'm trying to research the whole thing and get a shopping list going. I've broken the engine down and am looking up each individual part... Like I said I am baffled when it comes to the fuel delivery system.

granada sol

*cough* bump... for fuel system opinions and suggestions

Danny_EJ

visit this site. http://rceng.com/technical.htm

For 800 hp I believe you will need 1600cc's because according to RC's formula 1000cc's are only good til around 600 ish. I may be wrong but I have yet to see any saturated injectors in such large sizes. 1600ccs will be peak and hold which require a peak and hold driver to power them. You will also need something better than a resistor box cheat to drive them, like FJO Driver, AEM, or if you EMS has the driver built in like Motec. Also 800 hp is way past walbro territory. You will need an external fuel pump setup with upgraded fuel lines, pump, rail, and regulator

loudassVTEC

Instead of 1600cc injectors, which I've never heard of, if you have the right intake manifold, you can run two injectors per cylinder. In other words, if you need 1600cc's per cylinder, you could run two 800cc injectors, or two 1000cc injectors for safety, per cylinder. Don't ask me how you'd run them, or what engine managment system would run them, cause I couldn't tell ya.

non-VTEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by loudassVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Instead of 1600cc injectors, which I've never heard of, if you have the right intake manifold, you can run two injectors per cylinder. In other words, if you need 1600cc's per cylinder, you could run two 800cc injectors, or two 1000cc injectors for safety, per cylinder. Don't ask me how you'd run them, or what engine managment system would run them, cause I couldn't tell ya. </TD></TR></TABLE>

running 8 injectors would just make it harder to tune........RC makes 1600cc injectors which should support your power goals. just make sure you have the proper fuel pump and pressure regulator.

granada sol

what size fuel pump would you reccomend, and is 1600cc just a guestimate? I forgot to add the fact that I want to run a 150-200 wet shot of nitrous... so teh actual horsepower without spray is closer to 600. Anybody run 600 hp without dual injectors per cylimder?

Danny_EJ

wow

granada sol

wow what?

EG6R

wow what bullshit

granada sol

i don't want to start anything, but what would you consider to be bullshit

KMaxwell

our old car ran 8 1600cc on meth. for a little over the 800hp mark

loudassVTEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KMaxwell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">our old car ran 8 1600cc on meth. for a little over the 800hp mark</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would be right. You have to double the amount of fuel on meth, compared to gas.

granada sol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG6R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow what bullshit</TD></TR></TABLE>

BULLSHIT<U></U>?
I'm not quite sure if you are aware if this but Dart makes these B-series blocks...sposed to withstand 1000 horsepower. Oh yeah and they have made some heads to match. So if by bullshit, you're saying that roughly 600 horsepower on a forced induction 2 liter, plus the 200 shot ZEX direct port EFI setup won't hold... you're full of bullshit. I can build the bottom end to take the punishment, I just haven't seen a setup like this in person, and I want to know what kind of fuel requirements i'll need.

Or are you just calling this bullshit because you want to put your two cents in but dont know jack about the information I want to now?

I am new to this place... but i'm starting to thing this is more honda-talk than honda-tech!

b16a4

haltec ems
can control extra injectors

loudassVTEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16a4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haltec ems
can control extra injectors</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure AEM's EMS does also. Micro-Tech is another that pretty much does everything, so that might work also. If your get an experienced tuner, 2 injectors per cylinder should be cake work.

Also, to answer the question about the difference between high impedance/low impedance...I'm not sure if there is a difference internally, but they high impedance injectors (saturated) do not need a resistor box to run. The low-impedance (peak and hold) injectors need a resistor box. All the older OBD-0 Hondas with MPFI ran peak and hold injectors, and came with a resistor box. OBD-1 and up all have saturated injectors. So if you have a 88-91 Civic/CRX, or a 90-91 Integra, then you need peak and hold. And 92-up Civic/Integra, you need saturated injectors, unless you wire in a resistor box.

EG6R

bullshit - youre not building an 800hp motor.

loudassVTEC

Who cares if he really is building or not. He said he's thinking about it, and wondering what he would have to do to his fuel system to support it. The chances of him actually building are slim, because it would cost thousands of $$, but he is at least expanding his knowledge of what the stock fuel system can and can't do, and if it can't, what to do to make it do what he wants to do. No need to flame him for asking questions.

EG6R

hey man, he asked.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Danny_EJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by frankin_henry &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow what?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG6R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow what bullshit</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by frankin_henry &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what would you consider to be bullshit</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG6R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bullshit - youre not building an 800hp motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

loudassVTEC

Yeah, I guess he did ask for it. I prolly would have ignored the first wow, if it was me. Oh well. But I guess when you are new, you don't realize what and what not to say.

granada sol

yeahh.... i pretty much DID ask for it (what else could "wow" have meant)...

my bad dude

loudassVTEC

Did you at least learn a few things?? Anything else you have questions about??