First engine start of my build
10-01-2016, 08:32 AM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
First engine start of my build
okay so I've been building this b18a1 for a good while now. I plan on checking the torque specs with a digital torque wrench because a few years ago I torqued down with a big needle type torque wrench. It's been sitting torqued for about 3 years now. So rod stretch? They are arp main studs/ hesdstuds. Should I just still torque to the spec requested by arp or Honda? I used this special arp torque oil too. So any tips on that is appreciated. And joe Gibbs break in oil is what I'll break in with. Any pointers are appreciated. I will take the valve cover off and pore the oil over the cams and valves for a pre oil I guess because the motor has never been cranked? Thanks guys.
10-04-2016, 05:45 AM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
okay so I've been building this b18a1 for a good while now. I plan on checking the torque specs with a digital torque wrench because a few years ago I torqued down with a big needle type torque wrench. It's been sitting torqued for about 3 years now. So rod stretch? They are arp main studs/ hesdstuds. Should I just still torque to the spec requested by arp or Honda? I used this special arp torque oil too. So any tips on that is appreciated. And joe Gibbs break in oil is what I'll break in with. Any pointers are appreciated. I will take the valve cover off and pore the oil over the cams and valves for a pre oil I guess because the motor has never been cranked? Thanks guys.
10-04-2016, 06:23 AM
#3
Re: First engine start of my build
Torque would be to ARP specs. However, on the main crank studs and rod studs, switching to arp usually means a line hone on the crank bores and rod bores. The higher torque of the ARP studs distorts the caps and girdle. The engine head is fine with the upped torque.
For break in I adopt to this method:
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power
For break in I adopt to this method:
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power
10-04-2016, 09:37 AM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
Torque would be to ARP specs. However, on the main crank studs and rod studs, switching to arp usually means a line hone on the crank bores and rod bores. The higher torque of the ARP studs distorts the caps and girdle. The engine head is fine with the upped torque.
For break in I adopt to this method:
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power
For break in I adopt to this method:
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power
10-04-2016, 10:44 AM
#5
Re: First engine start of my build
ok but I've already torqued the main studs and rod studs. They have been torqued for over a year. Saying I should pull the block out and have the crank honed? I had it micro polished before I put it in. Rod studs might be wiseco. I'll have to check if I ordered arp or used eagle.
The only area you will likely have issues with is upgrading studs on stock parts (rods and main crank girdle) as ARP studs recommend a higher torque setting and bearing tolerances are in the 10,000ths of an inch range.
Your Mileage May Vary, I've just always seen people always say they have to do a line hone of the crank bores when they upgrade to ARP studs due to the increased torque values and bore distortion associated with that.
10-04-2016, 02:59 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
You didn't say you are using aftermarket rods (forged rods). If it's eagle rods with arp or eagle studs straight from eagle, then the rods should be fine and you follow the torque specifications they give you.
The only area you will likely have issues with is upgrading studs on stock parts (rods and main crank girdle) as ARP studs recommend a higher torque setting and bearing tolerances are in the 10,000ths of an inch range.
Your Mileage May Vary, I've just always seen people always say they have to do a line hone of the crank bores when they upgrade to ARP studs due to the increased torque values and bore distortion associated with that.
The only area you will likely have issues with is upgrading studs on stock parts (rods and main crank girdle) as ARP studs recommend a higher torque setting and bearing tolerances are in the 10,000ths of an inch range.
Your Mileage May Vary, I've just always seen people always say they have to do a line hone of the crank bores when they upgrade to ARP studs due to the increased torque values and bore distortion associated with that.
10-04-2016, 03:08 PM
#7
Re: First engine start of my build
matter of fact if I remember correctly I had the block honed. Sorry my memory is not all there perfectly I got hit really hard in the head in a car wreck. I legit broke my scull. I had cnc werx put in a css as well. Could I go ahead and crank it up? Or think I should pull the whole swap or something?
I would also assume before assembly, you measured all the bores for spec to choose your bearings. In that process you should have also measured the roundness of the bores for all the main journals and rod journals.
I guess if you don't actually remember, then it boils down to do you believe you did everything by the book back when you were doing it?
I would think you did all your homework and you did as you were dropping a bit of cash into the motor.
I don't think I would rip it all apart. I would trust my my abilities from then and run it. If it acts funny, then rip it all apart to see where I screwed up. At this point, ripping it apart might induce a problem where you have none.
You don't actually know until you run it.
Sitting for years doesn't seem to be an issue if it was assembled correctly. Many motors sit for a long time after assembly before going into a car and firing up.
I would just follow the break in procedure I shared the link about and run with it. But that's me.
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10-05-2016, 03:27 AM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
I would check all your receipts to see what kind of honing you did. Cylinder Hone is different than a line hone on the crank bores.
I would also assume before assembly, you measured all the bores for spec to choose your bearings. In that process you should have also measured the roundness of the bores for all the main journals and rod journals.
I guess if you don't actually remember, then it boils down to do you believe you did everything by the book back when you were doing it?
I would think you did all your homework and you did as you were dropping a bit of cash into the motor.
I don't think I would rip it all apart. I would trust my my abilities from then and run it. If it acts funny, then rip it all apart to see where I screwed up. At this point, ripping it apart might induce a problem where you have none.
You don't actually know until you run it.
Sitting for years doesn't seem to be an issue if it was assembled correctly. Many motors sit for a long time after assembly before going into a car and firing up.
I would just follow the break in procedure I shared the link about and run with it. But that's me.
I would also assume before assembly, you measured all the bores for spec to choose your bearings. In that process you should have also measured the roundness of the bores for all the main journals and rod journals.
I guess if you don't actually remember, then it boils down to do you believe you did everything by the book back when you were doing it?
I would think you did all your homework and you did as you were dropping a bit of cash into the motor.
I don't think I would rip it all apart. I would trust my my abilities from then and run it. If it acts funny, then rip it all apart to see where I screwed up. At this point, ripping it apart might induce a problem where you have none.
You don't actually know until you run it.
Sitting for years doesn't seem to be an issue if it was assembled correctly. Many motors sit for a long time after assembly before going into a car and firing up.
I would just follow the break in procedure I shared the link about and run with it. But that's me.
Last edited by lolv8s; 10-05-2016 at 03:57 AM.
10-05-2016, 10:12 AM
#9
Re: First engine start of my build
Many engine builders adopt that break in procedure for 4 stroke engines. Doesn't matter if it is 1 cylinder, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 or 12... Same process is used.
The large needle type torque wrench as you put it, are inherently accurate.
It sounds to me like you are looking for reasons to second guess your build.
If you don't trust it, then your only option for peace of mind is to rip it all apart and do it all over again.
The large needle type torque wrench as you put it, are inherently accurate.
It sounds to me like you are looking for reasons to second guess your build.
If you don't trust it, then your only option for peace of mind is to rip it all apart and do it all over again.
11-14-2016, 08:44 AM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
Many engine builders adopt that break in procedure for 4 stroke engines. Doesn't matter if it is 1 cylinder, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 or 12... Same process is used.
The large needle type torque wrench as you put it, are inherently accurate.
It sounds to me like you are looking for reasons to second guess your build.
If you don't trust it, then your only option for peace of mind is to rip it all apart and do it all over again.
The large needle type torque wrench as you put it, are inherently accurate.
It sounds to me like you are looking for reasons to second guess your build.
If you don't trust it, then your only option for peace of mind is to rip it all apart and do it all over again.
11-14-2016, 02:18 PM
#11
Re: First engine start of my build
If they did this with the exact hardware you have in it (ARP studs etc) then you should be good to go. They would have noted the distortion if there was any.
This is also assuming all the correct information was provided to the shop.
This is also assuming all the correct information was provided to the shop.
11-16-2016, 06:31 AM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
okay thanks man. is there any brand of break-in oil you could suggest for me?
11-16-2016, 08:03 AM
#13
Re: First engine start of my build
It appears Amsoil is one of the last old school break in oils without friction modifiers and high zinc and phosphorous content.
11-16-2016, 08:31 AM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
Im searching ebay for Amsoil break in oil and I cant find it? if you could give me a link or do you think ill have to buy from the amsoil website? Ive found brad penn, driven, lucas, and royal purple. but ive heard royal purple is just hype.
11-16-2016, 03:50 PM
#15
Re: First engine start of my build
You might find this post/article interesting.
Test Data on Amsoil Break-In Oil ? Speed Talk
Really it sounds to me like the initial method is a lot more important than the oil. If anything, using Pennzoil Platinum Ultra full synthetic might be your best option and then do the full pounding break in.
Test Data on Amsoil Break-In Oil ? Speed Talk
Really it sounds to me like the initial method is a lot more important than the oil. If anything, using Pennzoil Platinum Ultra full synthetic might be your best option and then do the full pounding break in.
11-18-2016, 07:41 AM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
You might find this post/article interesting.
Test Data on Amsoil Break-In Oil ? Speed Talk
Really it sounds to me like the initial method is a lot more important than the oil. If anything, using Pennzoil Platinum Ultra full synthetic might be your best option and then do the full pounding break in.
Test Data on Amsoil Break-In Oil ? Speed Talk
Really it sounds to me like the initial method is a lot more important than the oil. If anything, using Pennzoil Platinum Ultra full synthetic might be your best option and then do the full pounding break in.
11-18-2016, 01:04 PM
#17
Re: First engine start of my build
I already posted the break in secrets link. It gives you very specific method for the initial break in.
After that initial break in, you are going to be draining the oil and changing the oil filter anyway.
Knowing me, I would likely just stick with getting 4 quarts of amsoil 30w break in oil, do the break in process, drain and fill with Pennzoil platinum and swap the oil filter and drive normal.
After that initial break in, you are going to be draining the oil and changing the oil filter anyway.
Knowing me, I would likely just stick with getting 4 quarts of amsoil 30w break in oil, do the break in process, drain and fill with Pennzoil platinum and swap the oil filter and drive normal.
11-18-2016, 01:38 PM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
I already posted the break in secrets link. It gives you very specific method for the initial break in.
After that initial break in, you are going to be draining the oil and changing the oil filter anyway.
Knowing me, I would likely just stick with getting 4 quarts of amsoil 30w break in oil, do the break in process, drain and fill with Pennzoil platinum and swap the oil filter and drive normal.
After that initial break in, you are going to be draining the oil and changing the oil filter anyway.
Knowing me, I would likely just stick with getting 4 quarts of amsoil 30w break in oil, do the break in process, drain and fill with Pennzoil platinum and swap the oil filter and drive normal.
11-28-2016, 01:17 PM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
11-29-2016, 05:30 AM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
I already posted the break in secrets link. It gives you very specific method for the initial break in.
After that initial break in, you are going to be draining the oil and changing the oil filter anyway.
Knowing me, I would likely just stick with getting 4 quarts of amsoil 30w break in oil, do the break in process, drain and fill with Pennzoil platinum and swap the oil filter and drive normal.
After that initial break in, you are going to be draining the oil and changing the oil filter anyway.
Knowing me, I would likely just stick with getting 4 quarts of amsoil 30w break in oil, do the break in process, drain and fill with Pennzoil platinum and swap the oil filter and drive normal.
11-29-2016, 10:13 PM
#22
Re: First engine start of my build
After reading up on the amsoil break in oil (which is a synthetic) and the comparisons for wear etc. I am not so sure about the opinion of the oil being as critical.
The precise method if you are trying for the extreme is exactly this part:
Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from
30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Since you are on the street, you can ignore the cool down for 15 minutes and I would say all second gear pulls after the first step. The first step of 40-60% RPM at 1/2 throttle can be done in 3rd gear and not go over speed limit on the freeway I think. You might even get away with 3rd gear for the 40-80% but not sure there, I think it might take you a bit over speed limit on the freeway.
The 40%-80% at 3/4 throttle will likely have to be in 2nd gear. As will the last step of 30%-100% at Wide Open Throttle definitely has to be in 2nd gear. I know for me, 3rd gear 7200 RPM is pushing 140 KM/H which is car impounded over the speed limit.
Doing the math, my car has a redline of 7200 RPM
7200*0.30 (30%)= 2160 RPM
7200*0.40 (40%)= 2880 RPM
7200*0.60 (60%)= 4320 RPM
7200*0.80 (80%)= 5760 RPM
7200*1.00 (100%)= 7200 RPM
With that, I do not see how you cannot figure out your 30, 40, 60, and 80% RPM's based from your redline RPM.
The precise method if you are trying for the extreme is exactly this part:
Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from
30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Since you are on the street, you can ignore the cool down for 15 minutes and I would say all second gear pulls after the first step. The first step of 40-60% RPM at 1/2 throttle can be done in 3rd gear and not go over speed limit on the freeway I think. You might even get away with 3rd gear for the 40-80% but not sure there, I think it might take you a bit over speed limit on the freeway.
The 40%-80% at 3/4 throttle will likely have to be in 2nd gear. As will the last step of 30%-100% at Wide Open Throttle definitely has to be in 2nd gear. I know for me, 3rd gear 7200 RPM is pushing 140 KM/H which is car impounded over the speed limit.
Doing the math, my car has a redline of 7200 RPM
7200*0.30 (30%)= 2160 RPM
7200*0.40 (40%)= 2880 RPM
7200*0.60 (60%)= 4320 RPM
7200*0.80 (80%)= 5760 RPM
7200*1.00 (100%)= 7200 RPM
With that, I do not see how you cannot figure out your 30, 40, 60, and 80% RPM's based from your redline RPM.
11-30-2016, 05:14 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: First engine start of my build
After reading up on the amsoil break in oil (which is a synthetic) and the comparisons for wear etc. I am not so sure about the opinion of the oil being as critical.
The precise method if you are trying for the extreme is exactly this part:
Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from
30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Since you are on the street, you can ignore the cool down for 15 minutes and I would say all second gear pulls after the first step. The first step of 40-60% RPM at 1/2 throttle can be done in 3rd gear and not go over speed limit on the freeway I think. You might even get away with 3rd gear for the 40-80% but not sure there, I think it might take you a bit over speed limit on the freeway.
The 40%-80% at 3/4 throttle will likely have to be in 2nd gear. As will the last step of 30%-100% at Wide Open Throttle definitely has to be in 2nd gear. I know for me, 3rd gear 7200 RPM is pushing 140 KM/H which is car impounded over the speed limit.
Doing the math, my car has a redline of 7200 RPM
7200*0.30 (30%)= 2160 RPM
7200*0.40 (40%)= 2880 RPM
7200*0.60 (60%)= 4320 RPM
7200*0.80 (80%)= 5760 RPM
7200*1.00 (100%)= 7200 RPM
With that, I do not see how you cannot figure out your 30, 40, 60, and 80% RPM's based from your redline RPM.
The precise method if you are trying for the extreme is exactly this part:
Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from
30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Since you are on the street, you can ignore the cool down for 15 minutes and I would say all second gear pulls after the first step. The first step of 40-60% RPM at 1/2 throttle can be done in 3rd gear and not go over speed limit on the freeway I think. You might even get away with 3rd gear for the 40-80% but not sure there, I think it might take you a bit over speed limit on the freeway.
The 40%-80% at 3/4 throttle will likely have to be in 2nd gear. As will the last step of 30%-100% at Wide Open Throttle definitely has to be in 2nd gear. I know for me, 3rd gear 7200 RPM is pushing 140 KM/H which is car impounded over the speed limit.
Doing the math, my car has a redline of 7200 RPM
7200*0.30 (30%)= 2160 RPM
7200*0.40 (40%)= 2880 RPM
7200*0.60 (60%)= 4320 RPM
7200*0.80 (80%)= 5760 RPM
7200*1.00 (100%)= 7200 RPM
With that, I do not see how you cannot figure out your 30, 40, 60, and 80% RPM's based from your redline RPM.
second run:2880rpm-5760rpm three times
third run: 2160rpm-7200rpm three times.
after this its considered broke in?
and im seeing this joe gibbs [driven] brand break in oil 5w30. i think this will be great? but then again ive never done this.
11-30-2016, 06:01 AM
#24
Re: First engine start of my build
so first run: 2880rpm-4320rpm three times @ 1/2 throttle
second run:2880rpm-5760rpm three times @ 3/4 throttle
third run: 2160rpm-7200rpm three times. @ Full throttle
after this its considered broke in?
and im seeing this joe gibbs [driven] brand break in oil 5w30. i think this will be great? but then again ive never done this.
second run:2880rpm-5760rpm three times @ 3/4 throttle
third run: 2160rpm-7200rpm three times. @ Full throttle
after this its considered broke in?
and im seeing this joe gibbs [driven] brand break in oil 5w30. i think this will be great? but then again ive never done this.