I didn't know where else to put this, but I need some advice from people who know what they're talking about. I'm a newb to the tranny scene. I have an obd-1 gsr, daily driver. My goal is to have a weekend warrior at the track, but still go about 150-160 on the freeway. I know if I get the 4.785 it'll hurt my freeway cruising. Is keeping it stock gsr the best thing? Or is there an option to still have my high mph's AND gain some torque? Thanks fellas.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by guymosiris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">still go about 150-160 on the freeway</TD></TR></TABLE>

I SERIOUSLY hope you meant Km/hr...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by guymosiris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't know where else to put this, but I need some advice from people who know what they're talking about. I'm a newb to the tranny scene. I have an obd-1 gsr, daily driver. My goal is to have a weekend warrior at the track, but still go about 150-160 on the freeway. I know if I get the 4.785 it'll hurt my freeway cruising. Is keeping it stock gsr the best thing? Or is there an option to still have my high mph's AND gain some torque? Thanks fellas.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Actually the 4.7FD w/a GSR 5th gear isn't bad at all on the freeway. You'll be at about 4400rpm@80mph. I highly suggest going 4.7FD in a GSR tranny.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drdisco69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I SERIOUSLY hope you meant Km/hr... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope. I havn't gone 150 or nothing, but I've gotten close a few times.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually the 4.7FD w/a GSR 5th gear isn't bad at all on the freeway. You'll be at about 4400rpm@80mph. I highly suggest going 4.7FD in a GSR tranny. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Doesn't sound bad at all. Does anyone else have a 4.785 in a GSR and daily driving? If you could, please mention pros and cons of your commute.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by guymosiris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Doesn't sound bad at all. Does anyone else have a 4.785 in a GSR and daily driving? If you could, please mention pros and cons of your commute.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not. I had this setup in my past setup (before going K20). Trust me, its a good setup (4.7+GSR 5th).

 

as far as final drive... what the difference between the HOP 4.7 and say.. ATS 4.9. ATS seems to be almost twice the price.. are the gains that much different?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as far as final drive... what the difference between the HOP 4.7 and say.. ATS 4.9. ATS seems to be almost twice the price.. are the gains that much different?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The gearing is obviously even shorter with the 4.9 and I believe its totally noticeable compared to a 4.7. IMO, the 4.7fd is just fine. The 4.9 is twice the price because you're buying from ATS....not a cheap gear company

what's your goal anyways?

 

my goal.. let's see.. so far i have i/h/e cams w/ valvetrain and hondata..

I want to go LSD or final drive.. preferably both in the future I want to reach low 14s if that's reasonable in my daily driver 00civic si. I enjoy circuit tracking, but going fast is a plus. I don't need to go over 140..

The reason I'm looking to FD is b/c recently i saw a video here on h-t ... a 2005 rsx-s which is only 10hp more than 04, was pulling on stock evos.. blahblah.. and the only difference between the two years is that the 05 has a final drive and something with the cams.. FD must be doign something right in that car

thanks for your help... the 4.7 seems to be the way.. does it matter if it's used or new? any issues with used besides the obvious wear and tear?

 

btw are you running FD? if so.. which one?

 

yeah that is right....the 05 RSX has the JDM K20-R cams and 4.7 final drive now, and different ecu pinout locations.

I personally have a K20R engine now which has the 4.7fd by default, but before I went K20R, I did have a 4.7fd in my tranny. I actually had a CTR tranny with a GSR 2nd & 5th gear + 4.7fd. The 4.7fd is really good at the track and I highly suggest upgrading to one along with an LSD.

If you run a 15" wheel or smaller, it actually calculates out to being close to a 5.0fd because of the wheel diameter & gearing technicalities.

Make sure you get the complete kit w/bearings etc, when buying a 4.7, not just the ring & pinion gears; actually its probably best if you buy one brand new rather than used because of the bearings you need with it.
here's a pic of what the 4.7 kit consists of:

 

right on.. I have noticed that people just sell the two pieces as opposed to the whole set. Why is that? Do some cars only need the ring and pinion gear?

also.. why the gsr 2nd & 5th? did it help? worth the trouble? should i just do the final gear?

If the final gear is just one gear(1st?) how does it affect all the other gears.. basically.. why does it make all the other gears shorter too?

I know this is a lot of questions... but thanks, i'm such a newb when it comes to this stuff.

Do you have the old FD?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">right on.. I have noticed that people just sell the two pieces as opposed to the whole set. Why is that? Do some cars only need the ring and pinion gear?

well, depending on what brand of final drive you buy, some of the kits are drop in kits, and will work with your existing tranny, but when it comes to the OEM 4.7fd you need the components shown in my diagram if using the FD in any hydro US B-series tranny, because the bearings & etc. are different than the 4.7fd parts.


also.. why the gsr 2nd & 5th? did it help? worth the trouble? should i just do the final gear?

This was of personal preference, but I used the GSR 2nd because its a little bit of a longer ratio than a type-R/B16A 2nd gear which is almost useless with the 4.7 because of its short ratio. I actually had 2 tranny's total in the past that I used a 4.7fd on, first one had type-R 1-4th gears & GSR 5th. GSR 5th was used for better gas mileage on the freeway. 2nd tranny was a CTR tranny w/GSR 2nd & 5th.

If the final gear is just one gear(1st?) how does it affect all the other gears.. basically.. why does it make all the other gears shorter too?

The FD is NOT the 1st gear. Its the gear that 1-5th filter/mesh through and output power to the axles. Think of a 10speed bike - you have the gears on the back wheel and the crank+pedals in the center of the bike which acts like a final drive. Its a math equation, 1-5th gears have their specified ratio and so does the final drive, usually the higher the ratio number is the shorter the gearing will be for both the gears & fd.

I know this is a lot of questions... but thanks, i'm such a newb when it comes to this stuff.

Do you have the old FD?

heh, nope sorry.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

whoa, thanks again

Having the 2nd and 5th is making a whole lot of sense. I can see that 5th gear replacement would make fuel economy better and 2nd would pull longer ..

did you just go to acura/junkyard and find a gsr 2nd and 5th? is it as easy as plug and play... (b16 tranny mates with b18gears)?

You really cleared up the final drive idea in my mind. I really did think it was a gear, but now realize it's the part that interacts with ALL the gears.

my current ratio on stock b16a2 is
1: 3.23
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final: 4.4

So I'm guessing as the numbers get lower, the gears get small and turn slower right? i know you have a different car/setup.. but would you still recommend the change out of 2nd and 5th?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whoa, thanks again

Having the 2nd and 5th is making a whole lot of sense. I can see that 5th gear replacement would make fuel economy better and 2nd would pull longer ..

did you just go to acura/junkyard and find a gsr 2nd and 5th? is it as easy as plug and play... (b16 tranny mates with b18gears)?

Well, I actually had a spare GSR gears from my first tranny build up and searched around for someone selling the GSR 5th. B18 gears will drop into your existing B16 tranny though.

You really cleared up the final drive idea in my mind. I really did think it was a gear, but now realize it's the part that interacts with ALL the gears.

yup yup

my current ratio on stock b16a2 is
1: 3.23
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final: 4.4

So I'm guessing as the numbers get lower, the gears get small and turn slower right?

right..the gears get longer resulting in longer acceleration time

i know you have a different car/setup.. but would you still recommend the change out of 2nd and 5th?

For a B16A engine? nah, i'd keep your existing 2.105 2nd gear, you you'll want that for the torqueless wonder known as a B16A

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

so how much does a 5th gear from a gsr go for?

I'm also considering getting an LSD, and a new clutch. I'm guessing it would be wise to do it all at the same time for labor sake..

any experience with LSD? I hear Quiffe is the way to go for high HP but seriously i won't make that much HP compared to something turbo'd.. so HOP from ITR is the way to go for about half the price.

LSD... besides the actual differential.. what else do i need for my b16.. bearings?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so how much does a 5th gear from a gsr go for?

could range from $50-75, and you need both sides of the 5th gear (counter & main)

I'm also considering getting an LSD, and a new clutch. I'm guessing it would be wise to do it all at the same time for labor sake..

Yes, very wise decistion.

any experience with LSD? I hear Quiffe is the way to go for high HP but seriously i won't make that much HP compared to something turbo'd.. so HOP from ITR is the way to go for about half the price.

Quaiffes are dope, and if you wanna save a few bucks go with an OEM ITR LSD, usually found for around $450-500 used

LSD... besides the actual differential.. what else do i need for my b16.. bearings?

oh one thing, if you upgrade your B16's LSD to that of an ITR LSD, you need to use a GSR or ITR ring gear (which comes with the 4.7fd); you can't use the B16 ring gear because its too small in diameter and won't mate with an ITR LSD. I think Quaiffe makes LSD's specific to tranny type....so this is something to think about if you get an ITR 4.7fd..



</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

dang you're pretty on top of your game

I actually just called hmotoronline.com just now and steve broke it down like this.

If i planned on getting the HOP itr 4.7FD then i need to get a ITR LSD with 10 bolts as well, not the 14 bolt from SI... agree? i think i got it straight

i'm thinking of saving... so yah i'm going with ITR LSD not quaiffe

 

sounds about right!

 

when you said ring gear, in your picture you meant the #7 item right? just verifying. I'm looking on ebay and I'm looking at the LSDs that are for sale and I dont' see a single 14 hole LSD. i even googled "ctr lsd"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33731

check it out.. he says it's from the CTR but i still count 10 holes. I'm so confused

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when you said ring gear, in your picture you meant the #7 item right?

correct

just verifying. I'm looking on ebay and I'm looking at the LSDs that are for sale and I dont' see a single 14 hole LSD. i even googled "ctr lsd"

keep looking; do a search on H-T's classified section

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33731

check it out.. he says it's from the CTR but i still count 10 holes. I'm so confused

I see 10 holes, the screws are in the holes though.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

i think i've come up with the answer...

the RING gear that comes with the final drive set.. is what you have to make sure you get b/c it has 10 bolts. i guess on the civic, it comes with a 14 bolt one that doesn't work and you have to replace when getting the final drive. sound right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Make sure you get the complete kit <U>w/bearings</U> etc, when buying a 4.7, not just the ring & pinion gears; actually its probably best if you buy one brand new rather than used because of the bearings you need with it.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm looking to buy an LSD from a H-t member and he says it comes with speedo gear and bearings.. is this the same thing we were talking about here?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think i've come up with the answer...

the RING gear that comes with the final drive set.. is what you have to make sure you get b/c it has 10 bolts. i guess on the civic, it comes with a 14 bolt one that doesn't work and you have to replace when getting the final drive. sound right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well yeah you NEED the 4.7 ring gear anyways cuz its part of the 4.7 kit. You need the whole 4.7kit because none of the hydro final drive parts (accept a GSR diff) are compatible with the 4.7 kit, it uses its own special parts (shaft, ring, 1st gear, bearings/collar bearing etc). In fact, you're gonna need a GSR diff or ITR LSD when you upgrade to a 4.7fd because the ring gear is 10bolts and will only accept a GSR diff or ITR LSD, all other hydro b-series trannies use smaller diameter 14bolt diffs/LSD's.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm looking to buy an LSD from a H-t member and he says it comes with speedo gear and bearings.. is this the same thing we were talking about here?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uhh..the speedo is its own unit, not sure about the bearing side of it, but I dont think its the same bearings used with the 4.7 kit. Maybe ask him for a picture of the speedo & bearings. He could just be talking about bearings for the LSD.
What kind of LSD is this HT member selling? ITR?

 

the lsd i'm buying is from ITR.
are there any limitations to LSD? i mean if i'm not putting down that much power.. under 220whp, then is there a real need to go with quaiffe or something of the higher end?

now i need to find the FD and clutch

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwyoung &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the lsd i'm buying is from ITR.

bitchin

are there any limitations to LSD? i mean if i'm not putting down that much power.. under 220whp, then is there a real need to go with quaiffe or something of the higher end?

I guess it depends on how you race your car, or if you even race your car at all, and the type of racing you do. If your car is just a daily driver & weekend racer, ITR LSD is just fine, no need to waste $$ on a higher end/crazy-aggressive LSD. THe horsepower factor doesn't really matter, usually most OEM & good aftermarket LSD's can handle a high amount of horsey power. The gear type LSD's are the best vs. the clutch type (clutch type has internal clutches that wear out over time). ITR LSD's are a gear type LSD btw.

now i need to find the FD and clutch</TD></TR></TABLE>