eliminating vtec in a b18c1?
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (vtecmissle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecmissle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the toda killers are not for forced induction they are na cams and you would have to match the compressor to the cam which is a 9000 rpm all out race cam. You would also need astronomical valve spring pressure to hold the valves from floating and half your boost would go right out the exhaust because of the cam overlap. Now if you try to dial out the overlap with gears you will hit the valves to the piston or themselves depending on the setup. I would recommend a vafc or standalone to electronically dial in the vtec crossover down to around 1000 rpm if this is still your intent. Or just use ls heads and have them ported.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand that the toda cams are an N/A cam and compression would have to be huge,I don't plan to use the toda cams because im boosting,are you saying that the secondary lobe on a gsr cam has to much overlap for a boosted setup????How do people boost on regular gsr setup if the cam has to much lift(that doesn't sound correct),If so would a turbo profile cam, like a split duration cam, were it has long duration but short lift,small overlap to spool a turbo Quickly do the same?,I know that crane make some splitduration vtec cams but would those cams work with there rocker followers to eliminate vtec,If it doesnt than how do people run these setups without valves hitting valves and/or pistons?And I know that ported Ls head is a nice setup but the b18c head flows all together more air more efficiently.You also mentioned using a vafc or something to drop the vtec engagement point,thats what i dont want, iwant no switch on/off of vtec there is no need for driveability. I thought the reason this was done was to simplify the valvetrain and have less valvetrain mass allowing more inertia to make more top end power??????one more thing,wouldn't turning vtec on at 1000 rpm do the same thing as an aftermarket vtec cam with alot of lift at idle,I kinda understand that spring pressure has alot to do with lift but i plan to do springs retainers etc as well,Will someone with good knowledge help me out at least to figure out were im mis-understanding this setup,Iknow that im not a pioneer of this so any REAL KNOWLEDGE will be greatly appreciated.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM96SpecCTR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know its recommended for race only...u will have no low end power unless u have a hell of a built motor</TD></TR></TABLE> dont want dont need no stinkin low end i can wait till it comes around,this car will see 95% track and 5% street just for those friday night kills. lol
And dont you "wait" for boost anywase........yeah long wait, keep waitin its not that long of a wait.
I understand that the toda cams are an N/A cam and compression would have to be huge,I don't plan to use the toda cams because im boosting,are you saying that the secondary lobe on a gsr cam has to much overlap for a boosted setup????How do people boost on regular gsr setup if the cam has to much lift(that doesn't sound correct),If so would a turbo profile cam, like a split duration cam, were it has long duration but short lift,small overlap to spool a turbo Quickly do the same?,I know that crane make some splitduration vtec cams but would those cams work with there rocker followers to eliminate vtec,If it doesnt than how do people run these setups without valves hitting valves and/or pistons?And I know that ported Ls head is a nice setup but the b18c head flows all together more air more efficiently.You also mentioned using a vafc or something to drop the vtec engagement point,thats what i dont want, iwant no switch on/off of vtec there is no need for driveability. I thought the reason this was done was to simplify the valvetrain and have less valvetrain mass allowing more inertia to make more top end power??????one more thing,wouldn't turning vtec on at 1000 rpm do the same thing as an aftermarket vtec cam with alot of lift at idle,I kinda understand that spring pressure has alot to do with lift but i plan to do springs retainers etc as well,Will someone with good knowledge help me out at least to figure out were im mis-understanding this setup,Iknow that im not a pioneer of this so any REAL KNOWLEDGE will be greatly appreciated.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM96SpecCTR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know its recommended for race only...u will have no low end power unless u have a hell of a built motor</TD></TR></TABLE> dont want dont need no stinkin low end i can wait till it comes around,this car will see 95% track and 5% street just for those friday night kills. lol
And dont you "wait" for boost anywase........yeah long wait, keep waitin its not that long of a wait.
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From: long island, ny, usa
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (cxVtecC1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cxVtecC1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And dont you "wait" for boost anywase........yeah long wait, keep waitin its not that long of a wait. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well when u wait for boost, u have the regular NA power of the engine to get u to boost..with the vtec killers, (or with ur vtec constanly engaged, however u want it done) u will be loosing alot of low end power before gaining, not keeping stock low end and then gaining on top of that like boost. but if its a track car then hey it dont matter, and its your car not mine
And dont you "wait" for boost anywase........yeah long wait, keep waitin its not that long of a wait. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well when u wait for boost, u have the regular NA power of the engine to get u to boost..with the vtec killers, (or with ur vtec constanly engaged, however u want it done) u will be loosing alot of low end power before gaining, not keeping stock low end and then gaining on top of that like boost. but if its a track car then hey it dont matter, and its your car not mine
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (JDM96SpecCTR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM96SpecCTR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well when u wait for boost, u have the regular NA power of the engine to get u to boost..with the vtec killers, (or with ur vtec constanly engaged, however u want it done) u will be loosing alot of low end power before gaining, not keeping stock low end and then gaining on top of that like boost. but if its a track car then hey it dont matter, and its your car not mine</TD></TR></TABLE>
So if alls your trying to say is that there will be a loss of power/torque campared to stock down low @1000 to about 4500 rpm i understand that, this comes with almost all types of setups when your looking to make huge power up high, a N/A setup will slack down low until your powerband comes around, that makes sense but that doesnt answer my question.But thanks.
I've looked into the crane cams setup and like what i see, their turbo cam sounds like it will fit my app. but ive never really heard of crane cams for hondas before now,does/has anyone run them on a similar setup ?Or if there is other companies out there that also have similar roller follower designs?Anyone with sucess
well when u wait for boost, u have the regular NA power of the engine to get u to boost..with the vtec killers, (or with ur vtec constanly engaged, however u want it done) u will be loosing alot of low end power before gaining, not keeping stock low end and then gaining on top of that like boost. but if its a track car then hey it dont matter, and its your car not mine</TD></TR></TABLE>
So if alls your trying to say is that there will be a loss of power/torque campared to stock down low @1000 to about 4500 rpm i understand that, this comes with almost all types of setups when your looking to make huge power up high, a N/A setup will slack down low until your powerband comes around, that makes sense but that doesnt answer my question.But thanks.
I've looked into the crane cams setup and like what i see, their turbo cam sounds like it will fit my app. but ive never really heard of crane cams for hondas before now,does/has anyone run them on a similar setup ?Or if there is other companies out there that also have similar roller follower designs?Anyone with sucess
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From: salem, or, usa
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (john@etdracing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by john@etdracing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have my v-tech always on, and my rocker arms are pind and welded
is that what you mean, If that is what you mean there is an easier way also of doing it (no welding)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why go to all this trouble to make your head less efficient? Sounds like a load of crap to me. Did you weld your head yourself? Do you even know how the <U>vtec</U> valvetrain works?
I have my v-tech always on, and my rocker arms are pind and welded
is that what you mean, If that is what you mean there is an easier way also of doing it (no welding)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why go to all this trouble to make your head less efficient? Sounds like a load of crap to me. Did you weld your head yourself? Do you even know how the <U>vtec</U> valvetrain works?
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From: Hawthorne, CA, USA
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (mattssi)
ok, if u dont want vtec, all u have to do is uplug the clip (obd2) or unbolt the ground (obd0-1).
ur crazy... why get rid of vtec? unless its for lack of money to tune, there isnt ne reason to do this. if so, please enlighten me
ur crazy... why get rid of vtec? unless its for lack of money to tune, there isnt ne reason to do this. if so, please enlighten me
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From: long island, ny, usa
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (dcb16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dcb16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, if u dont want vtec, all u have to do is uplug the clip (obd2) or unbolt the ground (obd0-1).
ur crazy... why get rid of vtec? unless its for lack of money to tune, there isnt ne reason to do this. if so, please enlighten me</TD></TR></TABLE>
he doesnt want to actually get rid of vtec, just sorta have it on all the time.
ur crazy... why get rid of vtec? unless its for lack of money to tune, there isnt ne reason to do this. if so, please enlighten me</TD></TR></TABLE>
he doesnt want to actually get rid of vtec, just sorta have it on all the time.
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (JDM96SpecCTR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM96SpecCTR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
he doesnt want to actually get rid of vtec, just sorta have it on all the time. </TD></TR></TABLE>
YES exactly,dont get me wrong I think that vtec is one of the most technlogically advanced,way ahead of its time,wonders of life lol,vtec is the shiznit for a daily driven/weekendwarrior,but it actually has no use (in my opinion) on a purpose built race car,when the car is constantly revving around vtec and were it turns on,alot maybe extra (should i say) parts.There is valvetrain parts that can be removed to free up more hp and increase inertia i choose this head because, like i and many have said it flows better.Does anyone have anything good to say about crane cams???
If not any other suggestions on a similar roller follwer setup?? thanks
he doesnt want to actually get rid of vtec, just sorta have it on all the time. </TD></TR></TABLE>
YES exactly,dont get me wrong I think that vtec is one of the most technlogically advanced,way ahead of its time,wonders of life lol,vtec is the shiznit for a daily driven/weekendwarrior,but it actually has no use (in my opinion) on a purpose built race car,when the car is constantly revving around vtec and were it turns on,alot maybe extra (should i say) parts.There is valvetrain parts that can be removed to free up more hp and increase inertia i choose this head because, like i and many have said it flows better.Does anyone have anything good to say about crane cams???
If not any other suggestions on a similar roller follwer setup?? thanks
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From: Hawthorne, CA, USA
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (cxVtecC1)
ok... there is NO WAY a car can idle in vtec...
first off: not enough oil pressure to activate
second: the vtec lobes are WAY to big for you to idle at
dude... all you have to do is get some badass axels and some slicks, then just launch at 7k-8k... WHA-LAH, your always in vtec!!!
first off: not enough oil pressure to activate
second: the vtec lobes are WAY to big for you to idle at
dude... all you have to do is get some badass axels and some slicks, then just launch at 7k-8k... WHA-LAH, your always in vtec!!!
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (dcb16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dcb16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok... there is NO WAY a car can idle in vtec...
first off: not enough oil pressure to activate
second: the vtec lobes are WAY to big for you to idle at
dude... all you have to do is get some badass axels and some slicks, then just launch at 7k-8k... WHA-LAH, your always in vtec!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
1st. there wont be vtec to turn on/off
2nd.im not using stock vtec cams
3rd.your missing the point,there is a reason this is done,i not the first.
and finally if you have any expirence with this setup then help is very appreciated,but if dont and an dont understand than there is really no need for a reply thanks.
first off: not enough oil pressure to activate
second: the vtec lobes are WAY to big for you to idle at
dude... all you have to do is get some badass axels and some slicks, then just launch at 7k-8k... WHA-LAH, your always in vtec!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
1st. there wont be vtec to turn on/off
2nd.im not using stock vtec cams
3rd.your missing the point,there is a reason this is done,i not the first.
and finally if you have any expirence with this setup then help is very appreciated,but if dont and an dont understand than there is really no need for a reply thanks.
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (dcb16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dcb16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, if u dont want vtec, all u have to do is uplug the clip (obd2) or unbolt the ground (obd0-1).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Can anyone here read? You guys are missing the point entirely. He wants to lose the vtec mechanisms to lighten his valve train.
Call Ferrea - they make the parts you need.
Can anyone here read? You guys are missing the point entirely. He wants to lose the vtec mechanisms to lighten his valve train.
Call Ferrea - they make the parts you need.
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (Top Ramen)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Top Ramen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Can anyone here read? You guys are missing the point entirely. He wants to lose the vtec mechanisms to lighten his valve train.
Call Ferrea - they make the parts you need.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nice thank you finally someone that has at least a clue of the route im going,not to sound like jackass but vtec isnt the end of the world,there is proven facts that setups with no vtec assembly make alot of hp,remember drivability isnt an issue so if idles choppy and looses a little tourqe/hp down low thats fine.Just think when your whatin to vtaaaaaaaak this will already be doing what vtaaaaak does plus boosting, so i dont know it really comes down to what I want out MY car so everybodys different and i think this would be a little different than alot of setups.but thanks for the info.
Can anyone here read? You guys are missing the point entirely. He wants to lose the vtec mechanisms to lighten his valve train.
Call Ferrea - they make the parts you need.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nice thank you finally someone that has at least a clue of the route im going,not to sound like jackass but vtec isnt the end of the world,there is proven facts that setups with no vtec assembly make alot of hp,remember drivability isnt an issue so if idles choppy and looses a little tourqe/hp down low thats fine.Just think when your whatin to vtaaaaaaaak this will already be doing what vtaaaaak does plus boosting, so i dont know it really comes down to what I want out MY car so everybodys different and i think this would be a little different than alot of setups.but thanks for the info.
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (cxVtecC1)
Called ferrea,talked to some helpfull dude gave me the low down on idle quality and all the other shizzle discussed previously,I'm still open for options, is there any jdm companies that have pioneered this setup???Curiousity is a bitch
gave me the low down on idle quality and all the other shizzle discussed previously,I'm still open for options, is there any jdm companies that have pioneered this setup???Curiousity is a bitch
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (skunkwhat)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunkwhat »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can i ask what your goals are(times, hp) and your planned setup? (block, head, turbo, ect.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm putting this motor together for a purpose built race car,(yes im the jackass that will drive it on the road sometime-mybad)i want a car that is built to go fast in the 1320 but there is a part of me that wants to get onto a roadcourse,just for the hell of it ,to just rip around a track, i realize that the setups are very different,but it would still be fun to ease around turns and just kill cars on the straight aways.Im buying a full-race kit with the t3/t60 snail,and hope to make @500-600whp and drive the car alot i dont want to build it to sell,i hope with slicks to run in the 10's maybe with practice high 9ers who knows,im using a b18b and a gsr head with the setup talked about and all the rest of which should be done soon going on my current b18c1 w/itr slugs,for a bit till the turbo is payed for ...the b18b came out of my teg,that is going to the shop to get some love deciding on a good rod ratio for my build???Yeah thats about the basics any more details pm me.Im fairly new this but im trying to build a nice setup with the help of the professionals in this game.this motor is going in my hatch when i find the perfect one,so 2 hondas will be my garage hell yeah.damn i live in NE i need a truck lol soon...
I'm putting this motor together for a purpose built race car,(yes im the jackass that will drive it on the road sometime-mybad)i want a car that is built to go fast in the 1320 but there is a part of me that wants to get onto a roadcourse,just for the hell of it ,to just rip around a track, i realize that the setups are very different,but it would still be fun to ease around turns and just kill cars on the straight aways.Im buying a full-race kit with the t3/t60 snail,and hope to make @500-600whp and drive the car alot i dont want to build it to sell,i hope with slicks to run in the 10's maybe with practice high 9ers who knows,im using a b18b and a gsr head with the setup talked about and all the rest of which should be done soon going on my current b18c1 w/itr slugs,for a bit till the turbo is payed for ...the b18b came out of my teg,that is going to the shop to get some love deciding on a good rod ratio for my build???Yeah thats about the basics any more details pm me.Im fairly new this but im trying to build a nice setup with the help of the professionals in this game.this motor is going in my hatch when i find the perfect one,so 2 hondas will be my garage hell yeah.damn i live in NE i need a truck lol soon...
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not just go straight LS? you are disabling VTEC on a LS/VTEC its completley pointless to waste the money and time to do it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
you obviously didn't read any of the above threads.[QUOTE=cxVtecC1]
you obviously didn't read any of the above threads.[QUOTE=cxVtecC1]
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From: Hawthorne, CA, USA
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (cxVtecC1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cxVtecC1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm putting this motor together for a purpose built race car,(yes im the jackass that will drive it on the road sometime-mybad)i want a car that is built to go fast in the 1320 but there is a part of me that wants to get onto a roadcourse,just for the hell of it ,to just rip around a track, i realize that the setups are very different,but it would still be fun to ease around turns and just kill cars on the straight aways.Im buying a full-race kit with the t3/t60 snail,and hope to make @500-600whp and drive the car alot i dont want to build it to sell,i hope with slicks to run in the 10's maybe with practice high 9ers who knows,im using a b18b and a gsr head with the setup talked about and all the rest of which should be done soon going on my current b18c1 w/itr slugs,for a bit till the turbo is payed for ...the b18b came out of my teg,that is going to the shop to get some love deciding on a good rod ratio for my build???Yeah thats about the basics any more details pm me.Im fairly new this but im trying to build a nice setup with the help of the professionals in this game.this motor is going in my hatch when i find the perfect one,so 2 hondas will be my garage hell yeah.damn i live in NE i need a truck lol soon... </TD></TR></TABLE>
dont you think it would be better to go w/ an itr or gsr block then sleeve it? i mean, if u lightening the valvetrain, ur obviously planning on revving to 10k.
first off, ls rod bolts, 8mm compared to the gsr/itr 9mm
second r/s ratio how exacly do you plan on changing that? i think thats impossible...
but NOW that i understand what your saying, i think your setup sounds pretty killer and i wish you the best of luck
I'm putting this motor together for a purpose built race car,(yes im the jackass that will drive it on the road sometime-mybad)i want a car that is built to go fast in the 1320 but there is a part of me that wants to get onto a roadcourse,just for the hell of it ,to just rip around a track, i realize that the setups are very different,but it would still be fun to ease around turns and just kill cars on the straight aways.Im buying a full-race kit with the t3/t60 snail,and hope to make @500-600whp and drive the car alot i dont want to build it to sell,i hope with slicks to run in the 10's maybe with practice high 9ers who knows,im using a b18b and a gsr head with the setup talked about and all the rest of which should be done soon going on my current b18c1 w/itr slugs,for a bit till the turbo is payed for ...the b18b came out of my teg,that is going to the shop to get some love deciding on a good rod ratio for my build???Yeah thats about the basics any more details pm me.Im fairly new this but im trying to build a nice setup with the help of the professionals in this game.this motor is going in my hatch when i find the perfect one,so 2 hondas will be my garage hell yeah.damn i live in NE i need a truck lol soon...
</TD></TR></TABLE>dont you think it would be better to go w/ an itr or gsr block then sleeve it? i mean, if u lightening the valvetrain, ur obviously planning on revving to 10k.
first off, ls rod bolts, 8mm compared to the gsr/itr 9mm
second r/s ratio how exacly do you plan on changing that? i think thats impossible...
but NOW that i understand what your saying, i think your setup sounds pretty killer and i wish you the best of luck
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From: tq is not an option
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (Kamin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kamin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not just go straight LS? you are disabling VTEC on a LS/VTEC its completley pointless to waste the money and time to do it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Because he wants top end power. The LS head will sacrafice this however the vtec mechainism adds complexity in both mechanical and tuning that he feels he's better off without
vtec is not something honda developed to make the fastest cars in the world. It's something they designed to have clean tractable power so they can sell more cars.
Both the ferrea and toda kits get well over 1k bux when labor is figured plus tuning ect.
Unless you plan on rebuilding the entire motor both of thos kits will put peak power well beyond where I would want to take a turbo engine, however Gary Kubo did have there b16 pushing 10,400 rpm for 2 straight seasons without issues but it was fully rebuilt including the water/oil pumps seals and harware ect.
Since you don't plan on running endurance races with it I would'nt bother.
Because he wants top end power. The LS head will sacrafice this however the vtec mechainism adds complexity in both mechanical and tuning that he feels he's better off without
vtec is not something honda developed to make the fastest cars in the world. It's something they designed to have clean tractable power so they can sell more cars.
Both the ferrea and toda kits get well over 1k bux when labor is figured plus tuning ect.
Unless you plan on rebuilding the entire motor both of thos kits will put peak power well beyond where I would want to take a turbo engine, however Gary Kubo did have there b16 pushing 10,400 rpm for 2 straight seasons without issues but it was fully rebuilt including the water/oil pumps seals and harware ect.
Since you don't plan on running endurance races with it I would'nt bother.
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From: San Antonio, Texas, USA
I find it difficult to understand what the fuss is about. IMO the weight factor of the VTEC system should not be an issue for a turbocharged "race" engine. If you want to make up for the extra 5 lbs of weight, then add more boost. Just think, VTEC adds the boost effect to NA motors. I understand what you are trying to accomplish, however it seems a little out of reach for a regular Joe to try and get right. I would use a great set of turbo VTEC cams and boost the hell out of the motor. As far as rod to stroke ratios are concerned, if you want to change it then ditch the stock crank and rods all together, if you havnt done so already. On a turbo engine, power is made by boost and fuel. Displacement and RPM have little effect on turbo engines, unless taken to extremes. As fas as your question about cams, GSR cams are great for street turbos. There has to be a reputable cam designer who will make a cam specifically for your set up. If you have the time and cash they will appear for you in no time. Good luck with your palns. Keep us posted on your progress.
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Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (dcb16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dcb16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
dont you think it would be better to go w/ an itr or gsr block then sleeve it? i mean, if u lightening the valvetrain, ur obviously planning on revving to 10k.
first off, ls rod bolts, 8mm compared to the gsr/itr 9mm
second r/s ratio how exacly do you plan on changing that? i think thats impossible...
I'm planning to send the ls block to the shop to be bored to 83mm,i've seen an 800hp drag motor still with the stock honda crank obviously its had some love but none the less a factory crank,As to how im going to change the r/s ratio im not sure,I would assume that a shorter stroke would in turn spool a turbo faster(correct me if im wrong please)and rev higher than a longer stroke,but the bigger bore would give it a little more displacement for tourqe,If the r/s ratio changes its probably wont be by much if im understanding this correctly.Also about rod bolt sizes I plan to have my engine professionally put together,Im using eagle rods n havent really decided on whos pistons to use,I think that ARP makes a complete bottom end bolt kit for the b series but im not sure on the sizes and how it goes with aftermaket bottom end parts i will be using as many arp boltsas possible,bulletproof.I've pinned down my head design now i just need to find out more about this r/s ratio for my combination,I also have gsr block would that be a better block to build off,I figured it wouldnt matter so much once there both machined and built for the combiation im going for.[QUOTE=sans]
Because he wants top end power. The LS head will sacrafice this however the vtec mechainism adds complexity in both mechanical and tuning that he feels he's better off without
vtec is not something honda developed to make the fastest cars in the world. It's something they designed to have clean tractable power so they can sell more cars.
Both the ferrea and toda kits get well over 1k bux when labor is figured plus tuning ect.
Unless you plan on rebuilding the entire motor both of thos kits will put peak power well beyond where I would want to take a turbo engine, however Gary Kubo did have there b16 pushing 10,400 rpm for 2 straight seasons without issues but it was fully rebuilt including the water/oil pumps seals and harware ect.
Since you don't plan on running endurance races with it I would'nt bother.
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wouldnt bother doing what?and i do plan on building the entire motor,there is only one kit im decided on, and what is way beyond were a turbo engine should be, i liked everything you said,it made sense until that...plz explain so i can understand. That would be a beautiful thing listening to boost at 10k rpm my kind of ride.Hey to each is own.This project will not have cut corners.It will all be done by or with the help of professionals.Im going to order my rockers an cams to get the ball rolin so thats it fer now
dont you think it would be better to go w/ an itr or gsr block then sleeve it? i mean, if u lightening the valvetrain, ur obviously planning on revving to 10k.
first off, ls rod bolts, 8mm compared to the gsr/itr 9mm
second r/s ratio how exacly do you plan on changing that? i think thats impossible...
I'm planning to send the ls block to the shop to be bored to 83mm,i've seen an 800hp drag motor still with the stock honda crank obviously its had some love but none the less a factory crank,As to how im going to change the r/s ratio im not sure,I would assume that a shorter stroke would in turn spool a turbo faster(correct me if im wrong please)and rev higher than a longer stroke,but the bigger bore would give it a little more displacement for tourqe,If the r/s ratio changes its probably wont be by much if im understanding this correctly.Also about rod bolt sizes I plan to have my engine professionally put together,Im using eagle rods n havent really decided on whos pistons to use,I think that ARP makes a complete bottom end bolt kit for the b series but im not sure on the sizes and how it goes with aftermaket bottom end parts i will be using as many arp boltsas possible,bulletproof.I've pinned down my head design now i just need to find out more about this r/s ratio for my combination,I also have gsr block would that be a better block to build off,I figured it wouldnt matter so much once there both machined and built for the combiation im going for.[QUOTE=sans]
Because he wants top end power. The LS head will sacrafice this however the vtec mechainism adds complexity in both mechanical and tuning that he feels he's better off without
vtec is not something honda developed to make the fastest cars in the world. It's something they designed to have clean tractable power so they can sell more cars.
Both the ferrea and toda kits get well over 1k bux when labor is figured plus tuning ect.
Unless you plan on rebuilding the entire motor both of thos kits will put peak power well beyond where I would want to take a turbo engine, however Gary Kubo did have there b16 pushing 10,400 rpm for 2 straight seasons without issues but it was fully rebuilt including the water/oil pumps seals and harware ect.
Since you don't plan on running endurance races with it I would'nt bother.
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wouldnt bother doing what?and i do plan on building the entire motor,there is only one kit im decided on, and what is way beyond were a turbo engine should be, i liked everything you said,it made sense until that...plz explain so i can understand. That would be a beautiful thing listening to boost at 10k rpm my kind of ride.Hey to each is own.This project will not have cut corners.It will all be done by or with the help of professionals.Im going to order my rockers an cams to get the ball rolin so thats it fer now
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 945
Likes: 0
From: Hawthorne, CA, USA
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (cxVtecC1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cxVtecC1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
one kit im decided on, and what is way beyond were a turbo engine should be, i liked everything you said,it made sense until that...plz explain so i can understand. </TD></TR></TABLE>
explain what?
i really dont hink u should go with the ls block. the rod stroke sux and that is something that cannot be changed. i mean, ur getting these rockers to lighten valvetrain to rev, but ur block cant keep up. get an itr/gsr block.
one kit im decided on, and what is way beyond were a turbo engine should be, i liked everything you said,it made sense until that...plz explain so i can understand. </TD></TR></TABLE>
explain what?
i really dont hink u should go with the ls block. the rod stroke sux and that is something that cannot be changed. i mean, ur getting these rockers to lighten valvetrain to rev, but ur block cant keep up. get an itr/gsr block.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
From: tq is not an option
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (dcb16)
Ok you want to build an all out turbo motor, but why stop there ? If you only care about power, speed or ET's your better off with an h22 turbo
To me it does'nt seem like your in familiar territory with power plant design but it's enough to say prelude motors are in the 8's with vtec and it takes a tube framed 30+inch slick car to put that power down, not something you can afford currently I would assume, so to go to the lenght and spend over 1000 bux to disable vtec and remove the actuation including rockers ect is overkill and thus I would not bother
"I find it difficult to understand what the fuss is about. IMO the weight factor of the VTEC system should not be an issue for a turbocharged "race" engine. If you want to make up for the extra 5 lbs of weight"
if you were able to simply remove 5 pounds worth of valvetrain componets from a head you would gain back a huge amount of reliability and power.
To me it does'nt seem like your in familiar territory with power plant design but it's enough to say prelude motors are in the 8's with vtec and it takes a tube framed 30+inch slick car to put that power down, not something you can afford currently I would assume, so to go to the lenght and spend over 1000 bux to disable vtec and remove the actuation including rockers ect is overkill and thus I would not bother
"I find it difficult to understand what the fuss is about. IMO the weight factor of the VTEC system should not be an issue for a turbocharged "race" engine. If you want to make up for the extra 5 lbs of weight"
if you were able to simply remove 5 pounds worth of valvetrain componets from a head you would gain back a huge amount of reliability and power.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,120
Likes: 0
From: long island, ny, usa
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (dcb16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dcb16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
explain what?
i really dont hink u should go with the ls block. the rod stroke sux and that is something that cannot be changed. i mean, ur getting these rockers to lighten valvetrain to rev, but ur block cant keep up. get an itr/gsr block.</TD></TR></TABLE>
umm to change the rod/stroke ratio, all u need to do is change the rod and stroke lol
couldnt resist that one, but really, by changing the crank or using different length rods, u will change the rod/stroke. and besides that, the motor seems like it will be fully built, so even the stock LS r/s wouldnt be that bad for a built motor
explain what?
i really dont hink u should go with the ls block. the rod stroke sux and that is something that cannot be changed. i mean, ur getting these rockers to lighten valvetrain to rev, but ur block cant keep up. get an itr/gsr block.</TD></TR></TABLE>
umm to change the rod/stroke ratio, all u need to do is change the rod and stroke lol
couldnt resist that one, but really, by changing the crank or using different length rods, u will change the rod/stroke. and besides that, the motor seems like it will be fully built, so even the stock LS r/s wouldnt be that bad for a built motor
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Re: eliminating vtec in a b18c1? (JDM96SpecCTR)
I figured that the r/s ratio was determined by rod/crank length an size, so it should be possible to build maybe a better r/s ratio that will allow me to rev higher and boost,but why does the actuall block itself matter?isn't the r/s ratio determined by the above?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok you want to build an all out turbo motor, but why stop there ? If you only care about power, speed or ET's your better off with an h22 turbo
To me it does'nt seem like your in familiar territory with power plant design but it's enough to say prelude motors are in the 8's with vtec and it takes a tube framed 30+inch slick car to put that power down, not something you can afford currently I would assume, so to go to the lenght and spend over 1000 bux to disable vtec and remove the actuation including rockers ect is overkill and thus I would not bother
"I find it difficult to understand what the fuss is about. IMO the weight factor of the VTEC system should not be an issue for a turbocharged "race" engine. If you want to make up for the extra 5 lbs of weight"
if you were able to simply remove 5 pounds worth of valvetrain componets from a head you would gain back a huge amount of reliability and power. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Im not very familiar with the h22 engine design other than that there ver heavy?Remember im not looking to break any 1320 records with the car meaning i still want it to turn so an h22 i think would throw my hatch off unless maybe i corner balanced but still... i do plan on spending the money on the valvetrain parts so thanks for the input and maybe the 5 lbs of weight off my valvetrain isnt all that its worth,so if you dont like the idea dont bother replying but hey, thats why im trying it out and not you.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok you want to build an all out turbo motor, but why stop there ? If you only care about power, speed or ET's your better off with an h22 turbo
To me it does'nt seem like your in familiar territory with power plant design but it's enough to say prelude motors are in the 8's with vtec and it takes a tube framed 30+inch slick car to put that power down, not something you can afford currently I would assume, so to go to the lenght and spend over 1000 bux to disable vtec and remove the actuation including rockers ect is overkill and thus I would not bother
"I find it difficult to understand what the fuss is about. IMO the weight factor of the VTEC system should not be an issue for a turbocharged "race" engine. If you want to make up for the extra 5 lbs of weight"
if you were able to simply remove 5 pounds worth of valvetrain componets from a head you would gain back a huge amount of reliability and power. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Im not very familiar with the h22 engine design other than that there ver heavy?Remember im not looking to break any 1320 records with the car meaning i still want it to turn so an h22 i think would throw my hatch off unless maybe i corner balanced but still... i do plan on spending the money on the valvetrain parts so thanks for the input and maybe the 5 lbs of weight off my valvetrain isnt all that its worth,so if you dont like the idea dont bother replying but hey, thats why im trying it out and not you.