Anyone had any experience with this profile. Doing a complete 2.0 non vtec buildup, originally I had considered the 404's but now thinking of pushing the envelope a bit more. My question is I had planned not to go into headwork and stay in a reasonable range with the compression, 11.5-11.7., will a cam of this size be necessary? Or better yet will I see sizable gains over the 404's?

Setup
1.8 block GE resleeved 84.5 mm
Eagle Rods
ARP Bolts
Ross Pistons 11.5
Z10 Girdle
Skunk2 IM
Engine Management - still up in the air
Redline ~8200

Here are the specs on the cams
62405A Dur 280/274, Gross lift w/1.75 .476/.467

Any suggestions or opinions welcome

 

i think for the 405A's you would need some serious head work and custom ECU tuning........the higher the compression the better but you gotta be carful with valve to piston clearences when running those big cams

i hope your not planning on useing the 405S's in a daily driven car......the 404's hardly idle at all so the 405A's will not idle period........

good luck!

 

and i thought running my 404s without headwork was stupid
ls needs headwork anyways, why not get it instead of a couple of items you have listed?! it will make a HUGE difference.

 

minumum of 11.5 cr and you better get that thing ported. also get the skunk2 intake mani. as far as valve clearances i think it will really depend on the pistons. thats a similar spec cam i was gonna go with (284 duration and .464 lift (11.8mm)) ive been told you should be able to run a stock ecu but you should invest in hondata for sure to get it to run good.

edit: and for sure get some valve springs and retainers (this is very obvious and im sure thats the only reason you left that out.)


[Modified by JCushing, 2:18 PM 6/10/2002]

 

Headwork is not as effective money wise as you guys would think. Dollar for dollar a hotter cam(even with springs and retainers) will give you more performance per dollar. But if you have the time and money headwork will help you get the most out of your cam.

This is my philosphy--> Headwork, bolt-ons enhance performance. Cams, turbo, nitrous an compression(depending how much more) take performance to the next level.

 

head work is skilled manual labor thats why it costs alot but a b18b head would fall on its butt without it with a nasty cam at high revvvs. i didnt say its a great investment but something that should be done on a b18b.

 

btw any idea when the crower blanks are gonne be in stock i want em

 

I talked to Brian Crower just last week and they are still out.

I am working on a solutinon to that though. It's called true billet 8620 steel blanks.

 

please elaborate

 

I am planning on getting some 8620 steel billet bars and have them CNC lathed into a cam blank. Then I will have the profiles ground on these blanks.

I would imagine that these will knock the socks off the most discriminating performance freaks. Added benefit of being a **** load stronger that the cast iron blanks now available.

 

this will kill all those whiney "but crower always breaks people"


sounds expensive though.

 

It's going to be relatively affordable. I am shooting for a price of $475 to $500 for the true billet LS cams. And $700 to $800 for the DOHC Vtec cams.

BTW, JUN also breaks from what I hear.

 

so does skunk2 and theres more i just cant think of them.

 

just as long as the metal isnt to hard then the 8620 should be good.......i remember a while back that some super hard cams would wear/eat the lifters......?

 

405's for daily driven? I don't think so. I've seen it and it's pretty wild. My friend built the LS with GSR pistons, 405's and a nice headwork by tkmotion.com

The motor idles but its set pretty high, i couldn't see myself into the traffic every morning with the 405's....and just to think that i'll have to deal with the 404's in a few weeks is makin me nervous

If you don't care, and i mean really don't care get the 405's but i'd stick with the 404's for daily driven. But i must admit, the engine my friend built is WILD and it's kicking ***.

 

xxplosif1: do you have any dyno's of your friends car with the 405's? i'd like to see what kind of power they produce.........

 

I don't have any dyno's....sorry. The car was built for a Doctor that is doing ice racing (don't laugh, it's true! ) It's a 92-95 hatch. Since winter is over up here in Canada my friend is suposed to go try it at the track, i've been told it feels like a 13 second car but i didn't drive it myself.

Here's some pix

 

Thanks for all the replies. Tried posting this on CSI and the post just sat there.
First of all the car will rarely be street driven so the idle is not a real issue, as long as the thing will idle at all I will accept it.

Basically I didn't want to go as far as into headwork because the next step will be to step up to the vtec head. I am basically seeing how far I can go non-vtec just for my own amusement.

The bottom end is being fully built as well with that plan in mind, that is why the compression ratio well stay reasonable for now knowing that the GSR head will raise it a bit.

BTW you are aware that I am speaking of the 405A's. I see a listing on the crower site for them showing that they are slightly less aggressive than the regular 405s, thats why I am considering them.

Once again thanks for the info, keep them coming.

 

a cam profile is a cam profile

if you dont care about idle why bother with a vtec head? thats the whole point behind vtec. get some oversized valves and p+p it and youll flow better than a vtec head will.....

and yes i saw that it was the 405a's. the reg 405's have 12.7 mm lift. thats .2mm more than toda c's

 

Ok. Well on that note what horsepower numbers do you think are possible staying with the non-vtec head, with and without the port job.

With the portjob is it possible to surpass what could be made by simply throwing on the P72? I had accepting by doing so I would most likely sacrifice a small amount of torque for far more top end.

 

yes youll make more than a standard p72 head. to be fair compare them at the same cmpression:

405a cams have 12.0904 mm lift
gsr cams have 10.4 mm lift

you do the math hehe. obviously vtec has more potential in the longrun but you have to think of what your goals are. a vtec setup will give you better mid range torque and smoother more linear power with a higher peak (given similar cam profiles) (ive seen before and after dynos) but the cost is a whole lot more. my short term goals are for about 180 whp which i think i can do with a b18b without resleaving. i think its possible and i feel like i would be accomplishing more by gettin this hp level without vtec.

for me its cost right now i can get a non vtec setup that will rip for relatively cheap compare to an all out ls/vtec setup (vtec cams + valvetrain are a whole lot o money) eventually ill prolly go on to ls vtec or turbo but for now this is what i wanna do.

 

well, good luck with your set up and keep us inform. I'm currently getting all my parts for my non-vtec project too. I have my 404's and crane valve springs and retainers. Looking for a B20Z now, if i can't find one, i'll just get a regular B18B.

If you'd like to have some more info on a nice non-vtec project (they're rare!) look for the turbo magazine of this month, there's an article on a B20 set up in a 92-95 hatch. Fully built of course, the guy does the 1/4 in 11.xx @ 118 mph.....all-motor non-vtec. Interesting.


[Modified by xxplosif1, 6:34 PM 6/11/2002]

 

True. If your valvetrain can handle it your cool. Honda heads flow well stock and need minimal work to become screamers.

 

Btw, any ideas how to tune the cam gears on a non-vtec engine (with 404's) ?
I know all engines are different but its just to give me something to start with.

thanx.

 

you can start with +2 intake, -2 exhaust, or +4 intake, -4 exhaust..