Well, I recently put in my crower 404's, and yesterday was the "start day".

Well, long story short, the car wont start and no one knows why. I have the valve lash at crowers specs, all the vacuum lines are hooked up correctly and the compression is 150psi (i know, its low, but the car was cold) across the board.

The car will crank and sputter, but not start on its own. If you give it gas while turning the ignition, the car will sputter to life only to die once the gas is released.

The exhuast does not smell like coolant, and the head gasket is new and torqued to spec in the correct sequence, and the valve seals and plug grommets are new. However, there is a little bit of white smoke from the exhuast. There is some oil on the plugs (may be why its not starting, may be a side-effect of whats really wrong). Someone help me, I havent had any luck with searches and no one seems to know what to do. This is my 3rd webpage asking for help!

Timing? Valve lash? Whats with the oil on the plugs??

 

Did you screw up the cam timing?

 

are you referring to the 62404 non vtec cams?
if so when you installed them and tuned them did you originaly get them to idle?

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=521360

Maybe your cam timming is off or your belt skipped a tooth. Is it @ TDC?

Blazw

 

Double check that the timing belt is on correctly. It's easy to get this wrong on LS's because the rocker amrs have a high ratio pushes the cam.

Then do a light spritz of Berryman's B-12 in the intake manifold. It should start right up.

 

got it to start up with some messing with the idle screw. Timing seems to be OK, but the car stutters BADLY under part throttle and I have a CEL looking straight at me. *sigh* oh well, it does run, and accelerates smoothly untill i get up to 5k or so. Maybe a TPS? IACV? FITV? Im all out of abreviations, so someone tell me how to fix it.

Oh, and it sounds like a harley. I freaked out two ricers just driving it around to see what problems I would run into.

 

Do you have an afc or some tuning device? To get it to run right you will need to tune the fuel heres were to start. Pull about -30% out at idle and work your way up the power band. You will need to add a lot of full at around 4000rpm to redline.

 

well i just installed my vtec cams in my b16 and i had a prob that my car wouldnt idle after i was driving then stoped at light it would stall.
so i just raised the idle up and it is fine now.
befor i raised it up it would idle at 500rpm

 

maybe its just me, but it really sounds like a timing issue. Double check TDC, double check that you adjusted the valves in the right sequence.

 

well, like I said, its running, but with a CEL. Part throttle response is aweful and jerky, and it coughs after 5k. The idle is consistant, but lumpy, which is normal for these cams. My timing is 16 BTDC, but maybe im off on the acutall crank timing...i dont know. I have to check what codes im getting.

 

back to the top cuz i need help.

 

my car WILL NOT idle with out my VAFC . it feeds too much fuel at idle, kills it right off. u need more fuel after idle. u need tuning. have fun.

 

Any black smoke?

Sounds to me like the timing is off. Either that or you seriously need to reduce your fuel down low in the RPM band.

 

Rob- no black or white smoke, and I leaned it out 10% at idle, but it didnt do anything. Im almost positive it has something to do with the CEL (the idle)

Maybe the grounds are messed up, would it have something to do with the cap/rotor? the light came on after he was tinkering with the idle screw...

 

lean it up -50% at 1000-2000 rpm.

 

Don't lean it up to 50% unless you're on a dyno and working your way up.
Try starting around 25% - 30%. Get an A/F meter as a start.

You will eventually need to retune the ECU to get the full potential of these cams.

As for the CEL, are you running OBD-II? If so, you will most likely getting a MISFIRE code. Check the code.

Also, if you're thinking of doing more working on it, it's best for you to get a OBD-I conversion. Having the CEL on will put the ECU in limp mode.

Also, raise the idle slightly. It will prevent the car from stalling but you will get the idle surges up and down between 800 - 1500 rpm when the engine's cold, but settles around 850 rpm when it's hot.

 

the car idles alright, and its OBD-I. I have it leaned 10% at idle, but im cautious about leaning it out too much. 50% seems like alot.

On another note, my car is now very hard to stop. the brakes are hard to press and its almost like it doesnt have power brakes....brake booster?

 

A few quick thoughts

1) What kind of gas is in your tank?
2) Are you SURE that your timing is set up right? that the belt didn't in some way skip a tooth or a gear move while u were gettin the belt on?
3) Adjust your idle... if u can't idle at all u probably have on base idle.. reset your adaptation and double check all your adjustments.
4) U mentioned that u feel u have no brake assist.. check to make sure u don't have any vacuum leaks.

Times like this is best to go back to bare bone basics...

just a thought

 

About your brakes, the booster relies on a vacuum in the manifold to work, with big overlap cams your idle vacuum is low, and as such you booster isn't getting the vacuum it needs to work. You could try putting a vacuum canister to store vacuum and be able to use it when braking.

 

I was afraid of the vacuum issues with cams, I didnt think it would affect the brakes so profoundly, though. If i set the idle up on the cams, it should build more vacuum pressure, right? The check engine light might make things a little easier, too, idle wise. Tommorow I have to go out and find someone to diagnose my ECU for free (or at least cheap). Anyone know of any good shops that know what they are doing around Kansas City? I really want to get this thing running right so I can report my experiance with these big-*** cams.

 

bump one last time...I go out to search for pricey parts tommorow...can anyone save me from buying the wrong part before then?

Please, I need help, im a broke college student.

 

my car with the 404's idles when cold, but when it's warm..no idle

 

whatvtec:
That sounds like what happened with my install, turns out i had valve clearence .002 too tight. Granted I have 403s so it may be a different ball game.

 

whatVTEC, check your FITV.
Check your valve clearances

Now...My car idles a little better once its been driven, and My check engine light is still on, and Ive noticed bad gas mileage in addition to everything else ive stated.

The car is STILL almost as fast as when I didnt have cams in and had no CEL...these cams are gonna rule! Plus....no ricers rev on me anymore.