First I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I have nothing against Corvettes. Particularly the newest body style. I think they look 10x better now.

Secondly if I bought a car for an MSRP of $41k to $50k that had a 5.7l engine in it it had damn well better spank a GSR w/ 1.8l. Particularly a car of limited practicallity like a vette. Now if I do have a problem with the vette it's the same problem I have with pretty much all American muscle. The efficiency just isn't there. The Z06 engine generates 71hp/liter...which IS better than almost any other American car, but still fairly mediocre IMO. GM is still by far my favorite of the big **2** American car builders though.

I just don't think the awe bestowed upon this car is justified, save for respect for it's heritage perhaps. I can think of several better ways to spend that capitol on a ride. Just my opinion of course. Additionally I've driven a new vette and while it handled well, I did not feel a part of the car like I do with cars produced by several import car builders.

 

z06's are incredible for the money, they pull a g on the skid pad, get pretty damn close to 18 mpg highway and run easy EASY 12's all day bone stock AND HAS A WARRANTY...all for 45g's. Ive had more fun in on our local highways in my friend billy's zo6 than any other car, including f355's and 400+ hp hondas. I could care less about hp/liter, you should be looking at this equation- performance/$- nothing beats a zo6 oh yeah, WRONG FORUM


[Modified by builthatch, 8:07 PM 9/21/2002]

 

Who cares about hp per liter. I care about whats fast. I repect all fast cars period. I just prefer C5 corvettes cuz I like the performance, its reliable, handles great, pretty cheap, just an all around good car. The ZO6 is the performance bargain of the century. No other cars even match its performance for the price. Good gas mileage too.

 

Lingenfelter Corvette TT OWNS ALLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes they're an amazing technical achievement. Cram huge engine into tiny chasis. Wow it's fast too...how kewl. At least they look good now. They seem to be selling a bit better around here too.

 

I totally respect your opinion and your informative writes ups, BUT I have to disagree about the earlier Corvette ignitions (84-96).

While the ignition I think you're talking about is the 86-96 version (the tab on key) VATS or something like that, I have to say that my father had a 1985 Corvette which was given to me @ 67K, I then got rid of @ 73K. Insurance was horrible, I was 19 at the time.

Point being, throughout 69K miles and 15 years, he nor I had any reliability issues, the only thing that did not work from factory was the defogger system. And when the car was sold the AC did not work. That was it.

Maybe, we got lucky, but I would buy another 84-96, preferably 85-87. The most bang for the buck would be 92-96 Corvettes which will run less than 20 grand.

 

Speaking from experience, I own a 94TT as well as several other high performance sports cars (MB SLK32, MB CLK55, 98 ITR, Honda S2000), my Supra, as well as any other MKIV Supra would leave a Vette behind after shifting to second. You can buy a MKIV Supra used for $25k with 30k miles stock. For $10k more go to a single Turbo and for $5K more in suspension upgrades you have a car that runs 10 second quarters, 180 - 200 mph, anywhere from 730 to 1000 hp at the wheels and handling that is at least equal to the Vette! All that and you have about $14k left from the sticker price of a Z06 ($54K)! By the way is there really any question on reliability of Toyota vs GM? Oh ya, I got 27 miles per gallon on the highway with it when I went to the Supra Convention in Los Vegas. There is not another production car made that can touch a Supra for ultimate performance. Try and upgrade a Vette and see what you will pay. I know my friend had a Vette and he started down that path and was very frustrated. He finally sold it and got a Viper.

 

I appreciate that, and I strive to respect others opinion as well, no matter how much mine differs.

I'm glad you had good luck with yours really. 73k miles in 15 years really isn't very much driving. I've put twice that many on the 2 tegs I've had just in the last 5 years. The one failure on either of these cars was the ECU on my current car. Which I may well be to blame for, since it just so happens to be the O2 sensor heater circuit that's shot. A circuit I was guilty of tricking for several months.

 

I dont know how streetable a 1000HP Supra would be, but I'll tell you this...I'll take three of your cars, sell them, get a Z06 and have it tuned by Lingenfelter with money to spare for a Z28.

5.7 caliber killer.


[Modified by performula, 11:24 PM 9/23/2002]

 

I'll take an '03 with warranty, than '93 with 70K.

 

Who cares, get a GSR turbo hatch with some traction and they'll both be done.. My friends 97 GSR turbo HX coupe ran a 12.2@119 full interior on 13psi. Now it's in a 98 EK that will be fun.

 

Dam, in a coupe? That is nice. What Turbo? Kit or Custom?

 

I didn't know your car buy a Toyota Supra for 25k with 30,000 miles. That must be an awesome deal. What else I didn't know is that 10 second 1/4 you can have trap speeds from 180-200 mph. 730-1000 horsepower aint gonna handle that good since it got so much power. 27 miles per gallon on the highway is cool but the vette gets around the same, even better. Lets not talk about I can make this car faster and for cheaper than that car because I can very well modify a CRX and smoke that supra. The vette is a very good all around car.
And whats this talk about no other production car that can touch the supra for performance? Don't give me that crap. I don't believe anyword that you said. I do believe that u own a supra but u think you are on top of the world with that.


[Modified by OBD1KNOBE, 2:14 AM 9/24/2002]

 

vetts are nice and so are supras. but i don' think i'd take either one. rearwheel drive cars are fast but up in a state where it snows, there's no point in having one. IMO even if you've got a fast car, that don't mean squat if you can't drive. i've seen idiots with vipers run 14 all day and an NSX do 15's for awhile. but if i'd have to choose between the two, i'd take a supra anyday. you know how to beat a vett with a supra...BOOOOOSSSSSSTTTTTTTT!!!! yup, up the boost a few notches and presto. it's not as easy with a vett as it's N/A.

 

no matter how much a vette is its about its heritage. i know they r supposed to b 12 second cars bone stock, but i have a tough time believing any claims about new cars. i personally have raced a C5 vette. anyone can flame me all they want. my hatch out accelertated that thing in no time. could have been driver, hell i dunno. the vette is not as fast as everyone says or claims it to be. i think they take the HP ratin and the weight of the vehicle cause theres no way the car could actually do that at a track. they have major traction issues even with their precious traction control crap.
to get back to the question at hand. vette would kill the supra.

 

base model C5 runs 13's. The ZO6 runs 12's. Theres a difference

 

Vettes are okay. But the Supra has one GREAT advantage over the Vette - boost. A stock Supra might only put out 320HP. But with a tough cast iron block engine and free-breathing four valve head, this motor really responds to added boost. It is not hard to get MUCH more power than stock (as in 600+HP) from a Supra. 600+HP is quite a bit harder to get from a Vette. 450-500HP is about the limit of streetability from any allmotor, pushrod Chevy 350 small block (LS1 or LT1). The LT5 (which is DOHC and not a GM product anyway) is a different story.

 

I have to join in on the praise wagon for the vette. every year for the past decade or so the vette has been voted the most RELIABLE, best performing (handling/braking/accelerating) car on the market by Car and Driver. Car and Driver also held a track competition for a bunch of high-end production cars to come and duke it out. the vette out accelerated, out braked and out handled everything they threw at it. CLK 55, tuned rx7, etc. the only thing that came close to challenging the vette was the porsche 911 Turbo...and the vette even killed that!
I also have to agree with the guys saying talking about just factory cars and not tuned cars. sure, you can tune a supra or a CRX or a GSR or whatever and it's gonna be super fast depending on how much work and $$$ you put into it. but looking at stock production cars, the vette kills just about everything else out there. hell, look at the C5R Le Mans team...they win first, second and usually third place in just about every race they enter....corvette reliability. but i know that's a race car and not a production car...just had to throw that one in there.

also...as for the Supra TT being the best performance car out on the market.....first of all, the Supra isn't on the market anymore...so you can't even match two up to date production cars here. and there are plenty of other cars out there with damn good stock performance. RX7s (even though they're not sold here any more either), the new 350Z, SKYLINES!!! (one of my favorite cars ever!)

and last...about rear wheel drive cars not handling well just since you live near snow. yeah, snow sucks...but the handling characteristics between a front wheel drive car and a rear wheel drive car are pretty huge. which would you rather have: nasty and uncomfortable understeer with a FWD car, or exciting and controllable oversteer with a real RWD sports car?...

by the way...the supra is still one of the most beautiful cars ever made IMO, and is also still one of my favorite cars ever made along with skylines and a whole **** load of other cars.

 

No doubt about it, a dedicated racer should be RWD, but for those of us that live in the practical world and especially those of us that live in the practical world blessed by snow fall, RWD is out, unless you stow your hot rod away every winter, which allot of people do here in MI. I did this for years, but I really hate switching cars every fall, and driving beaters sucks.

We need to get more of the hot Jap cars over here. The Skylines are way sexy.

 

Forget the quarter mile. The supera will loose but after the quarter mile is when the super gets fun to drive. Supera owns when it gets up some steam. My friend was pushing 20+lbs on his SuperaTT. Man thats damn thing hauls major ***. Its also made to handle high speeds. I'd rater have a Supera IMHO.

 

A Brand New Corvette Z06 costs $45k... how much did a brand new 98 Supra TT cost? I know that a brand new 99' Mitsu 3000GT VR-4 went for about $45k and the thing would get smoked by the Z06, i am assuming that the Supra TT goes for about the same amount of money give or take $5k. Dont compare them with aftermarket parts because they are a different car, compare them price for price bone stock and thats where you see the difference. I know that if the owner of a brand new stock 98'Supra TT came to the light up against a brand new Z06 he would **** his pants and die. And if he tried he would get a nice look of the tick Ti Mufflers the Vette sports. Peace out stock TT!!

 

I had a 1995 Z28, with the, at the time, same engine as the Vett. Most unreliable car I ever owned. In 4 years I spent $4500 on that thing (after the warrantee), with almost all the trouble centered around the engine. I'm truly sorry, GM had my attention and they poisoned the well. Never again - a shame really.

 

Yes they've been on reliability risk lists since...well since forever. Too bad too, I'm certain Chevy could've fixed it if they had any inclination. Guess it's just easier to pull the plug in favor of the higher profit margin gas guzzling toasters everyone seems so enamored with.

 

Who gives a **** what you can do to a Supra with the Vette's sticker price? Going by your logic, aren't you better off with a 280Z and dropping in a 350 mated with a 6 speed box? Lighter, faster, and handles better with fraction of the money you mentioned.

You can talk about your "streetable, 1000hp" Supra all day long but bottom line is, without 100+ octane gas (note: you don't live at the track, do you?) you'll lose what, 30? 40% of your power? The battle doesn't end right there either... How about drivetrain upgrade? And don't even go to the fuel economy issue... If you're gonna spend that amount of money to build a fast car, who gives a rats *** about gas? Besides, the GM's 6 speed box is pretty cool... Can you say 1500rpm at 80mph?

With a 3000cc motor, 3200lb chassis, I don't see any "ultimate performance".

Any intelligent replies welcomed. But if you're gonna be a close minded "die hard import fan" then just ignore my post and continue fixing up your ultimate performance machine.

 

Hallelujah! If you take a BONE STOCK Z06, add slicks, some ecm tuning and cam, you will run have spent $54K on a car that can go 10's, go 170+ mph, and pull a g on the skid pad (w/o the slix of course!)



[Modified by builthatch, 8:36 AM 9/24/2002]