Ok, here is what I am planning on doing provided I don't run short on funds:

I am buying a GSR Engine Swap, but before I swap it into my '99 Interga LS, I'm planning on striping down the block, sending it out to Golden Eagle to get resleeved and bored our to about 84mm. Getting new Pistons and Rods (not sure on the compression yet). And I'm thinking of getting Skunk2 Stage2 cams and new valve springs and retainers.

My two questions are:

1. I am planning on turboing this engine down the road (but probably not for a couple years), so I don't want too high of a compression ratio. But I don't want to sacrafic too much power between now and the time I finally do turbo it, so I don't want too low of a compresstion now. I have heard of people talking about getting mild compression pistons (like keeping the normal LS compression) and just using a thinner head gasket for now to raise the compression. And When I'm ready to turbo, use a thicker head gasket to lower the compression. What do you guys think of this approach? What kind of compression numbers, defferences, would thinner and thicker head gaskets give me if I were to use a given mild compression piston?? I'm sure these won't give me extream changines in compression, but I'm just looking for ball park. I would be happy if this approch would give me about 10:1 (or even a little higher), and then about 9:1 (or even a little lower) when I turbo it.

2. What type of effect will the larger displacement and more aggresive cams have on my fuel system? And my Air/Fuel ratio?? Will I NEED to upgrade it? If so, what will I need too do? I'm only asking because, by the time I do all of this, I will be our of cash for now, and doubt I will be able to afford upgrading my fuel system right away. I plan on it in the future, but will I NEED to now?

I am opened to any suggestions. And any advice on this mod project would be greatly appriciated!

Thanks for your help!!

 

As far as the fuel system, I think you will be fine. At least for awhile. You should get a FPR and a AFC to tune with though. Obviously the stock map won't work properly, but I think the injectors and fuel pump will suffice. I was going to suggest a headgasket for compression before I even read it in your post. I'm not sure how far you can raise compression with one, but you can lower it a fair amount. You should be able to go from 10:1 to 9:1 no problem. 9:1 is fine for turbo, don't go lower than that. Do not skimp on tuning when you go turbo. You should be able to get away with it now but I would take it to a dyno with a wideband.

 

why not go 10:1 and leave it? **** all that headgasket shenanigans.... stud it, o-ring it and you'll be fine. as far as fueling, the 84mm cammed motor will need fueling addressed even w/o turbo. (overkill for the NA setup, but youll need something right away, especially with the combo of big bore & cams) I would get injectors and a fuel pump (255lph fi HOLLEY) and an apexi power fc or hondata 4, something you can change the tune easily from 84mm cammed NA to turb. YOU COULD get just an afc and fpr and use the stock inj. and fpump, but youll not need this **** when you go turb...the afc is a bandaid for tuning when built w/ turb. that is why i suggest getting what youll use in the end asap.


[Modified by builthatch, 11:29 AM 7/2/2002]


[Modified by builthatch, 11:31 AM 7/2/2002]

 

I agree that he should upgrade his fuel system, but if he is short on money than he sure as hell can't afford a Hondata, injectors, and a pump. The FPR can still come in handy with turbo, and just sell the AFC.

 

Ok, so this is what I gather so far:

Necessary Fuel Upgrade:
- AFC or VAFC
- FPR

Suggested Fuel Upgrade (would love to do this right away, but highly doubt I will be able to afford it right now):
- Injectors
- Fuel Pump
- Hondata (or similar)

and

Compression:
- Can go with a 10:1 compression and just leave it that way for turbo and will be fine
- Can lower compression quit a bit with head gaskets. (so I could possibly get 10:1 compression pistons and get a thinner gasket to raise the compression even more, and then get a thicker gasket to lower the compression to around 9:1 for a turbo)

Is there any problem with using the thicker head gaskets in a boost application? Does anyone have anymore specific numbers on how much compression can be minipulated with head gaskets?

Thanks for the advice. And I am still opened to anymore suggestions.

Oh, and I have two more questions:

- With the mods I am planning right now, what could raise my redline to (safely)?

- What type of power numbers (hp & tq) could I expect?

Thanks again for your help!!


[Modified by PSU-TEG, 5:23 PM 7/2/2002]


[Modified by PSU-TEG, 1:50 PM 7/5/2002]

 

You should make a post or do a search in the FI form about the headgaskets. I know Jinxproof was running an Inlinepro headgasket for compression and he was making some huge power. As far as the other stuff, I don't know much about N/A.

 

Ok, I think I may be able to afford going with a Hondata, new fuel pump, and injecters... (basicly by selling my soul)

What do you recommend along the lines of what I should get for the fuel pump and injecters (keep in mind, I want these to work with my eventual turbo too)?

Any other suggestions on what I may NEED to successfully complete the mods that I am doing now??

Thanks!





[Modified by PSU-TEG, 5:19 PM 7/5/2002]

 

fuel pump- holley or walbro (identical unit, walbro is cheaper) 255 lph forced induction unit...the best for any pump needs, and injectors? rc engineering but it depends on tuning needs, how much hp are you looking for @ how much boost?

 

If my 2 cents counts, I agree Id go with somewhat high compression like 10:1. You can turbo that fine. Tuning is key. Just dont go crazy with the boost. But as long as you got the engine apart you could just upgrade the internals: stronger rods, piston sleeves, better gaskets etc, which would be better NA of FI anyways. Who knows, maybe you'll be happy with the NA setup or never end up going FI and this way you wont screw yourself by getting somethin extreme like 7:1 cr pistons or something.

 

Well, right now.... my goal is a reliable, daily driven 300+HP to the wheels.... As far as boost, well it depends.... With the large bore and the other work I am doing, I would want to boost what I need to get me to my HP goals. I'm not as worried about the amount of boost as I am the amount of HP. If 6psi will get me to 300, then great (but I doubt it). If I have to boost 10-12 to get me over that 300 mark, then that is what I would want to do.

(but as is always the case..... once I do reach me HP goals, I will probably want to go for more... so I would like to do what will give me the most potential for HP)

 

Ok, thanks for your advice, everyone....

Anyone else have any thoughts or advice?

 

one of our cars, a street b18c1 delsol @ 12 psi ran 11.60 with built/sleeved bottom end, entirely stock head and stock ecu, full cage and full (hahaha, i know its a del sol) interior. he made a lil <350 @ the wheels. The good thing is you dont need to have crazy boost on the street to go fast, just using the rite combo of parts to make it werk @ a moderate psi...that delsol now has full head package, hondata, etc and is slated to run low 10's with the power its capable of @ 15 psi...a street car!

 

Ok, here's what I think I'm going to do:

1. I'm just going to go with something like 11:1 compression. a couple of years is far enough down the road to do get some good use out to those pistons, and I can just save up for some lower compression pistons to go along with the turbo.

2. I think I'm going to go with the injectors, fuel pump, and FMU... but:
- what size (kind) injectors do you recommend?
- what size (kind) fuel pump do you recommend? (someone already
suggested Holly 255cc, anyone else have any thoughts or opinions?)
- should I also get a FPR anway?
- Wht kind of FMU should I get? I looked into Hondata a little. But all I
found was that they are only avalible for older, OBDI, models (I have '99
LS). Does this mean I would need to get an OBDII ECU? I don't quit
understand this... an explaination would be appriciated!! And what type
of FMU would work with a OBDII GSR?

I am not real keen on what type of fuel system is need to support certain mods or hp goals, so if anyone can kind of spell out how I should be upgrading my fuel system, it would be greatly appricated!!!! And keep in mind, that I would like this upgrade to also be sufficant for when I finally do turbo so that I don't have to worry about upgrading it again.

Also.... what about my ignition system with my initial mods??

Thanks again for your help!!!

 

injectors? >440cc (greater than), maybe 550 if hondata can support them
fuel pump? holley or walbro 255 lph (liter per hour) forced induction unit
fmu? vortech, BUT, FMU is not the best way to go...you should use the injectors and engine management to fuel it, not rely on a finicky FMU. high fuel pressures are a bandaid for tuning...
HEY, i was going to suggest using 11:1 pistons but i did not think you'd be open to it, 11:1 with low boost on the street is SICK, then fuel up with race fuel for higher boost @ the track...


[Modified by builthatch, 11:05 AM 7/10/2002]


[Modified by builthatch, 11:16 AM 7/10/2002]

 

Ok, well maybe I'm just getting my terms mixed up when I say FMU.... I was thinking of a Hondata or similar.

I'm sure that you have read my post about Hondata only being avalible for older OBDI ECUs... so do you know of something similar to a Hondata that would work with an OBDII GSR???

If you feel that an FMU is not the way to go, then what do you suggest?


Thanks again for your time and advice! You have been a big help, builthatch!

 

I was thinking about AEM EMS....

Anyone have any thoughts or insight about it?

Also, how much do they run?

 

aem ems is nice...but the apexi power fc is just as adjustable BUT you can use a handheld interface instaed of a laptop for tuning, for the same price as the ems which requires a laptop for ANY adjustaments made...

 

Interesting.... I'll have to look into that.... thanks!

Still looking for a price......

 

Ok. I believe I have decided.

And going to do this:

Complete rebuilt GSR Swap
- Golden Eagle Godzilla Sleeves - Bored and honed to 84mm
- balanced & polished crank
- JE Pistions (11.5:1 C/R I think... going for all motor for now... would much higher be safe on pump gas?)
- Eagle Rods
- Skunk 2 Stage 2 Cams
- Skunk 2 Cam Gears
- Portflow valvetrain

Going with Hondata Stage 2 or 3, injectors (440cc), and 255lph fuel pump.

QUESTIONS:

1. Am I going to have problems with emissions?? (I live in pennsylvania, so I don't have to worry about C.A.R.B.)

2. What do you sugget as a safe Rev Limit? 9000? 9500?

 

thicker head gaskets get hotter easier than the stock and thinner units. Use pistons and combustion chamber design for compression.

And yes, after a year of ******* the NA motor, then why not spend the money to re-ring the motor and go with new pistons, if you don't want to do that (since it is not completely neccacary, more so if the motor was broken in ans taken care of) then get 10:1 compression pistons with the stock head gasket, you can run 9 psi on those just fine.

Use the thinner head gasket for the time being, but with the thinner head gasket there could be clearance issues with the cams you are planning on, plus those cams will have to go once you go boost anyways, I say have a strong bottom end on ten to one compression, leave it like that no cams, put that money toward turbo.

 

Thanks for the reply.... but I have already taken care of that and decided on what I am doing as far as that goes.... I'm just planning on going N/A (for now, will see if I change my mind) and using high compression pistons instead of messing with the head gaskets.


Anyone know anthing about my Emissions question? Rev Limit?

Thanks everyone for your help so far!!!!!!

 

you shold pass emissions, and the rev limit is dictated by many factors, give a list of the set up you have decided upon.

 

OK here is a complete list:

Complete JDM GSR Swap (engine, trany, axles, ecu, shift linkage)
- GSR Changeover
- Golden Eagle "Godzilla" Sleeves (bored and honed to 84mm)
- JE (11.8:1 CR) Pistons
- Eagle Rods
- Balanced and Polished Crank
- PortFlow Valve Train
- Skunk 2 Stage 2 Cams
- Skunk 2 Cam Gears
- Brand New:
- Water Pump
- Oil Pump
- Bearings
- Seals
- Gaskets
- Timing Belt
- etc.

Hodata Stage 2

440cc/mm injectors


So what do you think my rev limit should be? (keep in mind, this is my dayly driver, and I don't want to be pushing the limit. I want to know what I can safely set it at.) 9000? 9500??