<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by artifex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">check out the ATS carbon clutch/flywheel combo... http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/ats-p...shtml </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't have any experience or feedback on their product but it is not like Tilton since they are not using carbon against carbon like Tilton. Instead it looks like from the illustrations that they are using carbon against metal. We have done some of our own testing with this and the problem is that you are at the mercy of the limitations of the metal. Not to bag on them, it's just nothing like the Tilton.

 

ok back to ACT now

 

i will be buying an ACTION unsprung 6puck with the stage1 pressure plate, i did some research and i think it is best suited for my application. NA 200whp, street driven.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridvteceg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok back to ACT now</TD></TR></TABLE>
refer to this quote

 

I would go with the Maxx Extreme PP and a 6 puck clutch, I wanted 6 puck but the store I bought it from gave me a cable disc and when I went to exchange it all they had for hydro was 4 puck and I needed to put my tranny on that night so I had to go with it. It bites hella hard and I dont think you can beat it without going for something really crazy and exspensive. I got mine for $500, but if you only want the Extreme I believe you can get it for around $350.

 

To ACTMan: this is all said in the interest of sharing information and not smearing your companies name. I had a bad exp, I have learned some things that is what I am transferring to this post.

My last quote had to do with what I have seen your clutches do to stock parts.
period. Si Diffs, LS diffs, numerous axles, mysterious engine bearing failures... no doubt due to other things as well, but the force of the shifts slamming back onto the flywheel and crank/ thrustwashers have to be considered a risk. my motivation is to encourage people to consider the wear some aftermarket parts create in a stock motor, as I obviously had no idea the storm that was in my path. I am a customer that had a negative experience. I called your tech department and they "never heard" of an inner spline in a disk hub getting galled, causing the clutch disk to rattle. when you openly admit that you choose materials in your clutch disk hub that will gall before the input shaft to "protect it" please, dont insult my intelligence and I wont do the same to you. You chose parts due to the fact that they work, they are effective and they are affordable for you to mass produce. Why dont stock disks suffer from this issue... perhaps it is due to the fact they dont hold as much load, but that is a given... they last a long damn time and handle ALOT.. and they can be had with a lighter flywheel which will help ALOT of clutch dynamic issues yes/no?

current update:
I am still running the same GSR tranny, I have pics of the HDSS disk/PP also my flywheel. I also have mpeg files of my ASE certified master mech buddy that helped me through this ordeal. He had seen alot of ACT clutches in mitsu cars IE the eclips !-4 turbo motors and noted many gripes about the materials used and the wear it caused to flywheels, axles, gears, diffs, etc. Thats aside from my core reason for responding here. I have since rebuilt the synchros in the 3-4 hub, due to my driving over 65K miles. I installed your clutch at 36K and at 49950 when I installed my ITR block, I found my beloved ACT clutch to be past the edge of wear. The inner hub had so much play eventually it knocked on the input shaft at idle. there was 3/8" deflection on the disk at the edge in either direction while installed on the input shaft with the tranny on the floor. for refrence I had a 25K LS integra disk... in put it on the shaft, no play. I have since put 23K on that disk on a 160/120whp motor with spirited driving and its holding up decently w/o the chatter/knock at idle(yea the one that disappears when you push in the clutch: people with this problem know what I am talking about and most dont know its the disk shaking at idle at the inner hub of the clutch disk) My ACT HD/SS was purchased from Velocity Resources in person by JAson in Apopka Florida, installed by Fountain Acura, by a tech named Larry who now works at Coggin Honda as a tech there. My flywheel was purchased through inlinefour.com and an OEM ITR flywheel. Ordered it from brandon 2/02. The clutch felt great no doubt, it just didnt last. Dealers market this clutch as a stock replacement/upgrade. To those with a pending clutch purchase... if you dont have 135-150tq at the wheels (est) or more and your car is not a full out race car, only used for street driving manily with SOME autoX and SOME track days, do yourself and your tranny/axles/motor and budget a favor. If you want reliablilty, replace with stock honda and do so when needed, better yet: learn how to do it yourself and save coin. throw in a lighter flywheel with the ITR clutch pack no doubt you will like it and your clutch will last a long damn time unless you like buring tires and banging gears. some aftermarket companies thrive on ignorence to get your 500-700 purchase and offer no true R/D or real statistics. do you wanna guinea up and be someone elses yet self-funded R/D department?

me says NO not anymore. I also cannot sit here and let other people get ready to do something I did w/o my at least offering them more information to add to what they already know.


Modified by MikeSarr_GSR at 11:56 PM 5/28/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridvteceg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am a dealer for ACT so i get it at cost. do you drive the 4puck on the street?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had a 6 puck but now I use the clutchmasters 4 puck. I drive it everyday and it is fine. I like it a lot better than the 6 puck!!! The only thing I've heard about the 4 puck is that after awhile it will tear the hell out of your back mount. It hasn't happend to me....I say get the 4 puck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C1EKhb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would go with the Maxx Extreme PP and a 6 puck clutch,..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why? Way overkill and it won't gain you anything over the HD or Xtreme.

 

Wow! I am sorry ACT dissappointed you. Let me first say that I agree that too many people buy aftermarket performance clutches that really don't need them. We try to educate people about this. But, you can tell from the posts that everyone thinks they have a race car and need a race clutch. Your clutch: I thought you were talking about the splines of a puck disc wearing. As I mentioned we make our puck disc hubs out of heat treated chromoly. If we make them harder they will have more wear on the shaft instead, blah blah blah. It sounds like you are really talking about the hub and hub springs of a street disc coming loose which we have seen as well. You talk about splines galling which generally only happens from lack of lubrication on the splines, not material problems. 3/8" lateral movement? I don't even see how that is possible. I may be misunderstanding what you are talking about.

Honestly though, I am not totally satisfied with the center sections we are using. I can't say that we have seen that many failures to make it a big concern but I don't really want any failures. I know this doesn't happen all the time because I have seen some ACT clutches with high mileage without this problem. Our delema is that we do not make these parts. It is a standard replacement part that we put good linings onto. You suggested using the OE disc (made by FCC) which isn't bad but I have seen them suffer the same fate, so no they do it too. Maybe the stockers don't do it quite as fast, I couldn't say. To make matters worse, it is common for the windows of the hub surrounding the springs break when shifted or launched hard which is why I wouldn't consider using the OE disc. I would rather have a clutch wear out in a year than break in a day. With your help and others voicing an opinion, I am going to look into a better option. I can't say for sure that I will find it. I know eventually we will end up making our own street disc from scratch and fix it ourselves. There is always a compromise though. To fix the worn springs/hub/driveplate issue may increase weight, transmission noises, or pricing. The problem is that it is a high performance four cylinder. Hubs generally don't go bad on V8's because they don't have the violent torsional vibration of the four.

As far as our parts damaging diffs, axles, syncros, etc. that is where you don't make sense though. Our street clutch doesn't engage any harder than you allow it to. It definitely transfers more power which is what you want in a performance clutch, as long as you are making more power. Diffs and axle breakage are all about bad driving habits, not clutches. Syncros could be damaged by a bad clutch that doesn't disengage properly, but more often from bad driving habits as well. You cannot expect the driveline to hold up when chirping every gear. Don't blame the clutch that allows you to do that. Just restrain from showing off! Don't blame the strong clutch for broken axles when you sidestep the clutch on 28" slicks at 8000 rpm (exaggeration intended).

As far as your question about a lighter flywheel helping clutch dynamics: A lighter flywheel makes matters worse because the weight of the flywheel helps to dampen the torsional vibrations that cause the disc hub wear. It in a sense smoothes out the pulses. Obviously not enough to eliminate them, but it helps. The lighter the flywheel, the worse the torsional vibrations getting to the disc. It can also be harder on the other parts. When launching you need a certain amount of inertia to get the car out of the hole. What you don't have in weight, you will conpensate with rpm (unless you bog). What hurts worse, getting hit with a slow moving sledge hammer or with full swing of a golf club? Get the point?

I don't mind complaints, that's how we get better. I hate it when we don't get valuable feedback. For more info. you can email me directly.

 

so ACTman, what should i get, some say the 4puck and xtrm PP, some say 6...?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridvteceg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so ACTman, what should i get, some say the 4puck and xtrm PP, some say 6...?</TD></TR></TABLE>
As I mentioned earlier "Depends on the engine torque numbers. If you are under 220ftlbs use the HDSS kit. If you are over 220 use the XTSS kit." If it is a more serious racecar with slicks use the HDR6 (Heavy Duty with six pad). This has been more than enough for even the fastest all motor race cars.

 

ok im probly in need of the hdr6, so youre saying there is really no point in going to the 4puck? and people have said the 6 is ok for street. what are your takes on that, i dont mind having to get used to it.

 

just some more of my input, valuable or not...but I just thought I would let you know my 6 puck + HD pressure plate seems to fit my setup perfectly (B20vtec N/A) not too harsh (and its even an unsprung hub), but also holds the power fine. Just takes some time getting used to it.

mike