My appologies if this has been asked. I have a B16A2 already, am I better of overboring/sleeving it to an 1.8, or just starting with an B18

 

The b16 can rev higherin its stock form. But the b18 will make more power.

It really all depends on what you want to do and what kind of racing you want to get into.

 

you can sleeve to 84 mm and have a 1.8 out of your b16.great power and nice r/s


ooooppss, i ment 84mm, thanks for the correction notstock93


Modified by mmuller at 1:00 PM 11/13/2004

 

I have never seen a street engine sleeved to 94mm. Its generally agreed upon that anything over 86mm starts to restrict the jackets. Your thoughts?

besides, wouldn't it be almost a 1.8L with 85mm sleeves, too?

EDIT- I figured you just mistyped, MMULLER


Modified by notstock93 at 12:45 AM 11/14/2004

 

It would be a weekend driven/drag vehicle, sometimes driven to work and stuff, not too often though.

 

How about a resleeved b18 84.5mm bore? It would be a 2.0 L.

 

I still want to see a bored B16A/B. Its been my opinion for some time that the factory should have done that to begin with.

But if you are going for a weekend track car, go a bored B18C1/5 and be done with it. 2.0L VTEC is hard to beat.

 

In your case just go with a b18b or b18c and I'm not sure if your gona run a turbo if this is gona be in a all motor car but if your going turbo I would recomend that you go with 83mm bore at the biggest, to start out with. That way if you blow up you have a few rebuilds left in your block.

 

Displacement by itself doesn't affect hp/power (same thing). It does affect where the torque curve is. Tranny/gearing choices should be matched to the torque curve of the motor and it's intended use.

In other words, all other things remaining the same, the B18 does have a slight torque (but not hp) advantage over the B16 which makes the B18 more tractable to drive assuming they use the same gearing. If the gearing was optimized for each motor, there would be no advantage of the B18's over the B16's displacement.

Just trying to clear up any possible misconceptions about displacement (not engine components).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In other words, all other things remaining the same, the B18 does have a slight torque (but not hp) advantage over the B16 which makes the B18 more tractable to drive assuming they use the same gearing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

mmm... you do know that Horsepower= rpm x torque/5252, right?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Displacement by itself doesn't affect hp/power (same thing). It does affect where the torque curve is. Tranny/gearing choices should be matched to the torque curve of the motor and it's intended use.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

you are contradicting yourself
and who told you that displacement dont affect torque?

 

a 84mm b16 would only be a 1.7L 1707 cc to be exact

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aj99si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a 84mm b16 would only be a 1.7L 1707 cc to be exact</TD></TR></TABLE>

technicalities.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Displacement by itself doesn't affect hp/power (same thing). It does affect where the torque curve is. Tranny/gearing choices should be matched to the torque curve of the motor and it's intended use.

In other words, all other things remaining the same, the B18 does have a slight torque (but not hp) advantage over the B16 which makes the B18 more tractable to drive assuming they use the same gearing. If the gearing was optimized for each motor, there would be no advantage of the B18's over the B16's displacement.

Just trying to clear up any possible misconceptions about displacement (not engine components). </TD></TR></TABLE>


Ohh yeaaaa OK, i get what your saying..

So basicly a 454 cubic inch v8 just has more torque than my 130 cubic inch 4cyl honda motor?

Whaaauuu I never thought about it that way.

 

The thing is I already have a b16a2, I know a b18 is better to start off with as far a displacement goes. It would be fully built bottom, turbo.

 

if thats what you got, just go with it. What are your power goals and or et goals?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
mmm... you do know that Horsepower= rpm x torque/5252, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I do. Your point is?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you are contradicting yourself
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please share.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and who told you that displacement dont affect torque?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No one did. I believe my post was quite clear about it. Please read it again carefully.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ohh yeaaaa OK, i get what your saying..

So basicly a 454 cubic inch v8 just has more torque than my 130 cubic inch 4cyl honda motor?

Whaaauuu I never thought about it that way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That depends. You didn't provide any info other than purely displacement.

 

Instead sell that b16 block, and bore out an LS block. You'll have more power downlow and pull dirty

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Please share.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Displacement by itself doesn't affect hp/power (same thing). It does affect where the torque curve is.

the B18 does have a slight torque (but not hp) advantage over the B16
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No one did. I believe my post was quite clear about it. Please read it again carefully.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Displacement by itself doesn't affect hp/power (same thing). It does affect where the torque curve is.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

im done playing the quoting game, lol
go away now buddy.

 

mmuller, I was going to include the following 4 paragraphs in my prior post but, considering your pompous attitude, I figured I'd leave them out for the moment and give you all the rope you want to hang yourself with. *sigh* Looks like you bit the bait hard, oh well. Read on and learn something for a change while you lick your wounds, grasshopper:

Of course increasing displacement increases torque, but since it occurs at a lower rpm, there’s no power increase. The question resulted in some posts talking about getting more power, not torque. Since the torque curve follows the VE curve, hp is independent of displacement. Your formula will confirm that if you understand VE. I do appreciate your kind intent by posting it, but thanks anyway.

It’ll certainly be easier to drive and it may FEEL like it has more power, but it really doesn’t. If the drivetrain/chassis is unchanged (stock gearing, etc), the car may go quicker at the drags but it won’t post a higher trap speed. To go significantly quicker at the drags, you have to be able to post a higher trap speed. This requires more hp (or less weight). To get more hp, you have to be able to move more air through the motor. Increasing displacement won't do it because of how VE works.

Misinformed racers often figure ET is the bottom line and tend to ignore trap speed, and that’s a big mistake IF you’re interested in staying on top of your game. Tune by corrected trap speed at the track (or the dyno), not ET. It’s fine while the chassis is getting sorted out for the launch, but once it’s optimized, the only way to go quicker is to generate more power or further reduce weight. For example, it’s impossible to run a 10 second ET if the best you can do is trap at 100 mph. It’ll never happen. Period. If you want a breath of a chance to break into the 10’s, your ride better be able to trap 120+.

If the drivetrain/chassis has already been optimized for the B16, the B18 won’t make the car go any quicker or faster than it did with the B16. In other words, the B18 would have a far greater reduction in ET with an HF trans behind it than if it had, say, an SIR trans behind it as compared to the B16. Of course, both motors would run far quicker with the SIR trans. Trap speed, however, would be unchanged if the only difference was displacement.

For the rest of you that might be quick to counter, perhaps it would be a good idea to clarify something that seems to be widely misunderstood: power (for cars in this country at least) is measured in hp, not torque. Any ME can tell you this.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im done playing the quoting game, lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
So, finally figured out you painted yourself into a corner, huh? Nice copout. I'm trying to help out and here you come blowing along spewing misinformation - with attitude no less. That's funny, not to mention quite telling of the limitations of your knowledge of how cars actually work. You seem to know your Hondas, so wouldn't it be nice if you understood them too? Nuff said.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go away now buddy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
May I suggest the next time you decide to go shooting your mouth off again, you might consider thoroughly researching the topic you intend to debate so you won't get egg all over your face and look like the tool you come across as.

Tip: You may want to pick your battles a little more carefully next time.


Modified by hybrid2nr at 12:32 AM 11/16/2004

 

I'm shooting for 400hp and maybe mid 12's would be good for me. Thanks for all your posts

 

What car and tranny do you have? Also, do you know what it weighs with you in it?

 

GO WITH THE B16 AND USE EITHER A TYPE R , GSR OR B16A TRANS.

hybrid2nr

Your the one that needs to do more research.

The b16 will make less power than a b18b motor because it has 10.2mm less stroke than the b18c1 or 12mm less tan the b18b or b20 blocks.

If displacement didn't matter everybody in the whole wide world would have the exact some motor and just different transmissions like you are suggesting.

 

ok.
well, since im not real good at flaming im just going to leave that one like that, if it makes you happy kid; flame away..


lol, all that typing and your really not saying anything...
anyways, look at this dyno and make your own conclusions.






now, look at both dynos and tell me where the 1.6 liter makes the same ''power'' as the 1.8.maybe on high top end.
who has the most area under the curve? the gsr puts down more torque all across the board...
I see that your understimating my knoledge about VE. Ve has nothing to do with this.So what if peak ve occurs at peak torque?
By increasing displacement you increase TAF and you you know ve is simply the actual volumetric flow rate divided by the TAF multiplied by one hundred.
so the VE #'s that you'll get for each engine have nothing to do with each other.VE is a percentage for a given displacement and rpm.
you talk about gearing this and gearing that, we all know that gearing/final drive affects torque output to the wheels...so?? the guy already has a b16 tranny.

oh oh e-thugging again, pointless waste of words.

 

It is a 2000 Si, The reason I am asking is that I am stationed in Japan right now and I have pretty easy acsess to a b18c, but on the other hand I already have the b16 back in the states.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol, all that typing and your really not saying anything...
anyways, look at this dyno and make your own conclusions.

now, look at both dynos and tell me where the 1.6 liter makes the same ''power'' as the 1.8.maybe on high top end.
who has the most area under the curve? the gsr puts down more torque all across the board...
I see that your understimating my knoledge about VE. Ve has nothing to do with this.So what if peak ve occurs at peak torque?
By increasing displacement you increase TAF and you you know ve is simply the actual volumetric flow rate divided by the TAF multiplied by one hundred.
so the VE #'s that you'll get for each engine have nothing to do with each other.VE is a percentage for a given displacement and rpm.

oh oh e-thugging again, .</TD></TR></TABLE>

*sigh*

E thug? Nah. Pointless waste of words? I completely agree with you on that, lol! At first I figured you were flaming me because I’m a noob on this board, and I’m okay with that. Now I know better:

1: You're still can't tell the difference between power and torque. C’mon, you can Google better than that!
2: Ditto for Ve versus “TAF”.
3: Wow. Before you compare apples and oranges regarding the B16 vs B18 dyno readouts, how about listing what parts are similar or different between those very motors in the printouts? Like heads (including mods) and valve timing for starters? It’s glaringly obvious there are huge differences between them, and it’s not just displacement. We’ll go from there, okay?

I attempted to clear up some misunderstandings you have, but I guess for you - ignorance is bliss, so feel free to flame away. Just try to back it up with valid tech this next time. Pretty please?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

I'm jealous you have such easy access to the b18c in Japan. Which version exactly were you thinking of getting and what are they going for over there?

I'd lean towards the JDM b18c. To achieve 400 hp with a turbo, you'll need to run roughly 16 - 20 psi boost, depending. Even with 2600+ lbs, you'll have no problems getting deep in the 12s.