Blown motor!! need help..
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 57
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From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Blown motor!! need help..
welp.. I need some advice here. I still don't really understand what happened, but the Si motor is F*cked up bad. I was driving really hard last night, then I went from 3rd to 4th and almost as soon as I shifted, it made a horrible noise and there was tons of smoke pouring out from the car. I instinctively pushed in the clutch right away, and the motor died instantly, and wouldn't crank. I trailered the car home with a buddies trailer, and took it apart today.. the valvetrain was fine(whew), so I took out the #3 plug and it was covered in oil and metal. The rest are the same, except the #4 was broken in half, from the piston smashing it. There's a puddle of oil in every cyl, minus the #4 (probably drained through the hole in it), and there's coolant in the oil. I know something in the bottom end broke, but has anyone seen/heard of this? Here's pics for ya:
EDIT: Here's some more details.. It was a 7800rpm shift into 4th(remember the Si has a 8200 rev limiter), and it blew after I was already in 4th, and pushed the gas down. I have a Spoon chipped OBD-1 p28 ECU, which has been in the car for a couple of weeks now, I'm running stock timing, I didn't over rev the motor, and the oil and coolant were good. I'm suspecting either the rod bolts came loose, or it was detonating and I didn't hear it..
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 4:24 AM 3/11/2002]
EDIT: Here's some more details.. It was a 7800rpm shift into 4th(remember the Si has a 8200 rev limiter), and it blew after I was already in 4th, and pushed the gas down. I have a Spoon chipped OBD-1 p28 ECU, which has been in the car for a couple of weeks now, I'm running stock timing, I didn't over rev the motor, and the oil and coolant were good. I'm suspecting either the rod bolts came loose, or it was detonating and I didn't hear it..
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 4:24 AM 3/11/2002]
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (w00t!)
I thought it was impossible for the piston to contact the spark plug.. maybe I dropped a valve and the valve smashed the plug? I can't see well enough through the plug hole to tell, but it looks like the piston top has an impression o the plug in it..
Now what about the oil in the other pistons? How did that get there?
Now what about the oil in the other pistons? How did that get there?
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: TX, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (BlackOutSi)
I am going to guess that the new ECU disabled your knock sensor (the JUN does this) and you detonated really bad. I hole in the piston and a exploded sparkplug it typical.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (matthewk)
Well after looking closer, I've found that one of the exhaust valves for the #4(the one with the demolished plug) probably broke. The spring feels really loose and it's the only one like that. I can push it down a little with one finger.. So here's the new theory: I dropped a valve into #4, which destroyed the spark plug. I just can't figure out why there's oil in the cylinders and coolant in the oil. Also, the motor won't crank at all. 
Right after it happened, I tried to turn it over, and it moved for about a 1/4 turn and just locked up.. Any more ideas? thanks for the help so far.. 
Right after it happened, I tried to turn it over, and it moved for about a 1/4 turn and just locked up.. Any more ideas? thanks for the help so far..
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Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (BlackOutSi)
I have a Spoon chipped OBD-1 p28 ECU, which has been in the car for a couple of weeks now,
Damn dude that sucks. Sorry to hear that. How many miles on your motor ??
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (SpooN Man)
The motor had 66k on it.. Only mods were the ones on the sig, plus that ECU... It's actually under warranty still, so I'll see if Honda will buy me a new motor.. I'm pulling off the cat-back, ECU, and intake tonight before they touch it. Anyone see any problems with them honoring the warranty? 
I'm just glad it happened now, because the turbo was going in tommorow. At least now I have a shot at Honda covering it. I'm going with Hondata 3b, that's why I have that ECU.. will the Hondata use all the sensors? I'd like to be able to know when somethings up..
Looks like all I can do now is sit back and drink a few... probably quite a few
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 11:20 PM 3/11/2002]
I'm just glad it happened now, because the turbo was going in tommorow. At least now I have a shot at Honda covering it. I'm going with Hondata 3b, that's why I have that ECU.. will the Hondata use all the sensors? I'd like to be able to know when somethings up..
Looks like all I can do now is sit back and drink a few... probably quite a few
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 11:20 PM 3/11/2002]
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: TX, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (BlackOutSi)
The motor had 66k on it.. Only mods were the ones on the sig, plus that ECU... It's actually under warranty still, so I'll see if Honda will buy me a new motor.. I'm pulling off the cat-back, ECU, and intake tonight before they touch it. Anyone see any problems with them honoring the warranty?
I'm just glad it happened now, because the turbo was going in tommorow. At least now I have a shot at Honda covering it. I'm going with Hondata 3b, that's why I have that ECU.. will the Hondata use all the sensors? I'd like to be able to know when somethings up..
Looks like all I can do now is sit back and drink a few... probably quite a few
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 11:20 PM 3/11/2002]
I'm just glad it happened now, because the turbo was going in tommorow. At least now I have a shot at Honda covering it. I'm going with Hondata 3b, that's why I have that ECU.. will the Hondata use all the sensors? I'd like to be able to know when somethings up..
Looks like all I can do now is sit back and drink a few... probably quite a few
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 11:20 PM 3/11/2002]
Besides you are the reason that car prices are as high as they are, more then 40% of the price of the car is baised upon historical costs for the manufactures "warranty" repairs to the vehicle.
Repairing broken stuff is the price that you pay if you want to play with people that know alot more about engineering than you. Grow up and be responsible for your actions, you should be paying for this not Honda.
Sorry, if this sounds shitty, but what you are doing is wrong. The really sad thing is that I bet that you think that what you are doing is OK?
[Modified by matthewk, 11:49 PM 3/11/2002]
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (matthewk)
It's still a defective valve either way..... IF I had overrevved the motor, or shifted from 3rd to 2nd accidentally, I could see it breaking.. The cat-back and intake should have no effect on the valves breaking, but the dealerships here are ******** when it comes to getting any warranty work done.. Here's my history on Honda covering their warranties:
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: NJ, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (BlackOutSi)
I really doubt that the valve was defective. Sorry but its pretty much your fault that the motor blew. The spoon ecu is made to run on high octane gas in japan and I do believe it too gets rid of the knock sensor. Your engine blowing up looks like a case of bad detonation.... I really doubt that a "defective" valve would have lasted as long as your motor did. Oh yeah, your engine blowing up could possibly be from a timing belt slipping and causing you to have piston to valve contact...
[Modified by Avante, 12:25 AM 3/12/2002]
[Modified by Avante, 12:25 AM 3/12/2002]
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: TX, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (BlackOutSi)
It's still a defective valve either way..... IF I had overrevved the motor, or shifted from 3rd to 2nd accidentally, I could see it breaking.. The cat-back and intake should have no effect on the valves breaking, but the dealerships here are ******** when it comes to getting any warranty work done.. Here's my history on Honda covering their warranties:
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (Warren)
It really doesn't matter to me.. I'm just going to try all routes. I've already talked to a few people about going ahead with the LS/VTEC swap like I had planned on anyways. I just hope the head is still useable. Like you saw from my previous post, 9 out of 10 times they won't cover anything anyways, so I wasn't expecting them to be of any help to begin with. Sorry if you think I'm a lowlife bastard... wait, I am 
The car was going in for turbo this week anyways, so I'm just glad it happened now. Otherwise the people doing the turbo would feel it was their fault for their bad tuning.. Now I have an excuse to go ahead and do a little building on it before I throw in the turbo...
I'll come out of this better than I would have before. Trust me. Oh yeah, and thanks for the inputs still... even if they are critisism. I think I'll just leave the car the way it is and se what they say.. they may just help me out anyways, who knows?
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 2:03 AM 3/12/2002]
The car was going in for turbo this week anyways, so I'm just glad it happened now. Otherwise the people doing the turbo would feel it was their fault for their bad tuning.. Now I have an excuse to go ahead and do a little building on it before I throw in the turbo... I'll come out of this better than I would have before. Trust me. Oh yeah, and thanks for the inputs still... even if they are critisism. I think I'll just leave the car the way it is and se what they say.. they may just help me out anyways, who knows?
[Modified by BlackOutSi, 2:03 AM 3/12/2002]
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,529
Likes: 0
From: CS, CO, United States
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (BlackOutSi)
personally F all that unethical crap...last time i looked honda dident care about me or anybody elese for that matter. so if u can get a new motor by going the warranty road do it and let honda eat a measily 1000 bucks for them. so as i always say...do what u got to do ..less money out your pocket the better
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
From: Arlington, Tx, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (hybridrex)
I've not seen many blown n/a b16as they short rod engines and very stable at high rpms and take great abuse if you mainteine them. I'm guessing it was the spoon ecu or the ecu was asking for too much fuel/per spark that your pump couldnt do.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (jmx2323)
personally F all that unethical crap...last time i looked honda dident care about me or anybody elese for that matter. so if u can get a new motor by going the warranty road do it and let honda eat a measily 1000 bucks for them. so as i always say...do what u got to do ..less money out your pocket the better
, no Higher HP motors, no Prelude Type S, the focus rip-off they call a Civic Si... I just found a fully sleeved and built LS block by Jotech for sale... looking tempting
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (matthewk)
It's still a defective valve either way..... IF I had overrevved the motor, or shifted from 3rd to 2nd accidentally, I could see it breaking.. The cat-back and intake should have no effect on the valves breaking, but the dealerships here are ******** when it comes to getting any warranty work done.. Here's my history on Honda covering their warranties:
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
If you take off things that would otherwise make them not cover the damage, that is decption and will be considered fraud. If you are cirtian that it is defective or due to a defect, then go and plea your case with them. However like I said, doing what you are planning is unethical, illegal, and otherwise lame.
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
If you take off things that would otherwise make them not cover the damage, that is decption and will be considered fraud. If you are cirtian that it is defective or due to a defect, then go and plea your case with them. However like I said, doing what you are planning is unethical, illegal, and otherwise lame.
unethical, illegal, and otherwise lame is how the honda dealers like to bang you up the a$$. I have no problem tring to screw honda dealers out of as much as possible. I cannot fathom that you can take this stance. F*(& honda dealers, they give honda a bad name. The price that you paid for the car justifies tring to get it covered under warrenty.
When a honda dealer says that they will not cover your alt, because of an intake that is unethical, and lame. When a Honda dealer wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it. that poo is lame.
get real.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,595
Likes: 0
From: SingLe caM tuRbo, WA, usa
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (SpooN Man)
I have a Spoon chipped OBD-1 p28 ECU, which has been in the car for a couple of weeks now,
Thats you problem, You have almost no sensors. With those ecu chips you can almost unplug all of the sensors and the motor will still run fine. You punched a hole in the sleve that's why you have coolent in your oil.
Damn dude that sucks. Sorry to hear that. How many miles on your motor ??
Thats you problem, You have almost no sensors. With those ecu chips you can almost unplug all of the sensors and the motor will still run fine. You punched a hole in the sleve that's why you have coolent in your oil.
Damn dude that sucks. Sorry to hear that. How many miles on your motor ??
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (b16_ef)
They were made with racing in mind. They were designed to work with very high compression motors running race fuel. The reason they disable the sensors is that they do not need them for short term racing. Keyword is racing. Hell they rebuild the motors after like a few races. For the public we need protection from this like the knock sensor that will retard your timing when you start to f*&k **** up. Also the chips that we get are not the same ones that they use, for the most part. If you want a good ecu get one that works well. I say hondata it's only 500 for the stage three.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: Dublin, OH, 43017
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (BlackOutSi)
It's still a defective valve either way..... IF I had overrevved the motor, or shifted from 3rd to 2nd accidentally, I could see it breaking.. The cat-back and intake should have no effect on the valves breaking, but the dealerships here are ******** when it comes to getting any warranty work done.. Here's my history on Honda covering their warranties:
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
First 3 months I had the car, I noticed the clearcoat coming separated from the basecoat. Honda first said that it was acid rain(I live in Arkansas, the natural state). I went to the other local dealership, and they said I left bird crap on the paint. If that happens, it's washed off within 24 hours, and the 2 coats of wax should help that some..
6 months after I had the car I went to Honda because my fenderliner rubbed on something and fell out of the car. I took the car and the liner to them and they said it was just trim, and not covered under their warranty. Same thing with a crack in the interior trim around my radio.. not covered.
I went to a Honda dealer in another state once for an oil change, and they wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it.
My alternator went out on the car, and wouldn't fix it under warranty because I had the intake on the car, and said that they were directly related.
Every time I've taken my car to Honda, they NEVER fix anything under warranty!! I've paid out of pocket for everything I've needed fixed on the car.. This time I don't want them to have any excuse to not do something about it. I've got full powertrain warranty on the car for 100k, so I intend to use it. I didn't pay them extra just to be denied everytime I take it in to fix bad parts..
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: Dublin, OH, 43017
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (reVVin)
Oh yeah....I guarantee that almost ANYONE who has an engine blow on them and it is covered under warranty would have this idea cross their mind MULTIPLE TIMES! So don't go around acting like you've never done **** that is bad...it just kinda gets to me how everyone is looking at it from their own pov where they aren't the one's who are in a rut and might have to pay all this $$$.....please, place yourself in his situation with the whole money issue and ontop of that I guarantee he has debt already and might not be able to afford a new motor at this time....it's something like 97% of all americans are in debt.
[Modified by reVVin, 6:08 PM 3/12/2002]
[Modified by reVVin, 6:09 PM 3/12/2002]
[Modified by reVVin, 6:08 PM 3/12/2002]
[Modified by reVVin, 6:09 PM 3/12/2002]
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,584
Likes: 1
From: Charlotte NC
Re: Blown motor!! need help.. (SpooN Man)
If you take off things that would otherwise make them not cover the damage, that is decption and will be considered fraud. If you are cirtian that it is defective or due to a defect, then go and plea your case with them. However like I said, doing what you are planning is unethical, illegal, and otherwise lame.
unethical, illegal, and otherwise lame is how the honda dealers like to bang you up the a$$. I have no problem tring to screw honda dealers out of as much as possible. I cannot fathom that you can take this stance. F*(& honda dealers, they give honda a bad name. The price that you paid for the car justifies tring to get it covered under warrenty.
When a honda dealer says that they will not cover your alt, because of an intake that is unethical, and lame. When a Honda dealer wouldn't touch the car because it had a cat-back on it. that poo is lame.
get real.
i went to a dealership once and the man was arrogant enough to say " *sigh* wat is it now?? and this is ur wat...4th 5th time here again? where's it at...front,..back??" i was like wtf? if im bringing him money wats up w/his F8cking pissface attitude. i hate those guyz MAKE THEM BUY U A NEW MOTOR AND ALL U CAN GET! GO BLACKOUT!! 