what parts do i need to make my B16A block a 1.7? what would i need from a B17? i would of gotten a B18C1 block but i am on a low budget...
<U>T|A</U>

 

The B16 and B17 are basically identical motors except for the crank, rods, and pistons. Just get some B17 rods and crank, and use your PR3 B16 pistons because they will yield higher compression in the B17.

 

You'll have to hone the cylinders to fit the B17a pistons and rods. I suggest that you install Spoon JDM ITR pistons which will yield a much higher compression (roughly 10.6:1) than the B17a pistons (9.7:1).


[Modified by GSpeedR, 9:36 PM 12/28/2001]

 

? ? i've never heard of the b17s having a larger bore than the other B-series ??
anyone want to confirm this?

 

all b-series other then B20a/b/z have 81mm bore, to make the b16a get a crank + rods, pistons from b16a will work and yield good c/r ratio...

 

Ah dammit...wrong word. I was fixated on "bore" from a previous post. I meant to say You'll have to hone the cylinder walls to fit the B17a pistons.

Thanks for catching that.


[Modified by GSpeedR, 9:35 PM 12/28/2001]

 

You won't have to "HONE" them to fit, you need to "HONE" the walls so the new rings will seat properly.

B16/17/18 - ALL 81mm

B20B/Z - 84mm

B20A - 81mm
B21A- 83mm

HTH

 

I didnt think the bore was any different. But then again, those b17s are harder to find than sasquatch

 

Well then, unless you plan on running pistons without rings then "HONING" is pretty much neccessary when installing the new pistons. That's what I meant by 'fit'. If the rings don't seat properly then there will be trouble

Anyway, I wouldn't spend money on the B17a pistons. The crank may be a good idea though it is on the expensive side.

 

I've done this stroke job with my previous engine.
(B16A block w/B17A internals & CTR pistons)

all you need is the B17A crank and rods, you don't want the pistons becuase b17A pistons yeild about 9.7.1 compression ratio which is gay for an all motor setup. Either stick with your OEM B16A pistons or if you want to make some good power, go with a set of CTR pistons.

or (something i want to try one day) ..
Stick with your B16A pistons, and go with a GSR/P72 head....
your compression should be around 10.7ish with a GSR head/1.7L stroke/B16A PR3 piston.

In light of what GSpeedR's point is..
Since you want to stroke or make your B16A block have a 1.7 liters, you'll need to change the crank (which means you'll have to put new crank and possibly rod bearings on), you might as well put new rings on whichever pistons you plan to use. So yes, you'll want to lightly hone your block since you're basically rebuilding a B16A block.


OR...

if you don't have access to B17A internals. You can resleeve your B16A block and slap a bigger (wider) piston in there -- with the right calculations, you'll acquire a 1.7L engine without changing the crank since the wider piston will make up for the cranks missing .1 liter in stroke.

but if you do this (and it gets kind of costly), you might as well go as wide a piston as the sleeves will let you and try for 1.8L, which is possible in a B16A engine. You'll also keep the 'near perfect rod ratio' a b16a engine has as well if you go this route.

[Modified by Katman, 10:46 AM 12/29/2001]


[Modified by Katman, 10:47 AM 12/29/2001]

 

so what is involved when you goto 2litres by using a different crank? Anyone have a website with a little more information?


[Modified by superflea, 10:55 AM 12/29/2001]

 

Katman,
If I understand this the B16 and B17 have a 81mm bore. So the extra .1 of displacement is made by having a longer stroke (different crank/rods) in a B17.

Now I was under the impression that if you put CTR pistons in a B16 you have very little to no clearance at TDC. If that is true how can you use a crank that produces a longer stroke and still use CTR pistons?? Did you have any clearance problems in this setup??

 

heh nice avarter

well the main ingredient of getting that .1 displacement is the B17 crank itself, not particularly the rods. The rods just compliment the pistons & allow them to fit into the block.

For example, lets say I used a B17A crank in a B18A block -- I'd use the B17 crank & a custom rod so everything would fit under the deck, yet the stroke would still be 1.7L -- all because of the crank.........unless, I went with an oversized or over-oversized piston, then the stroke would change to something higher than 1.7L.

I had zero clearance issuses with CTR pistons with my B16-B17 stoker setup.
Since I used B17A rods w/ the B17 crank, everthing fit under the B16 deck no problem. The pistons are just pistons, the dome height, wrist pin height, and crown height characteristics are all factors in compression ratios along with the crank Liter size. Again, with the right combination of parts you won't have clearance issues.

BTW, I didnt have any type of milling or thinner headgasket with my old engine setup, that in itself would eliminate any clearance issues. Now, if i had some big *** cam on my engine, such as Toda C's.....then some piston to valve issues may occur.....but I couldn't afford those back in early 99 anyways, nor were they available nor did I care to have any!

It seem that All OEM (JDM & US) b-series pistons were made to work in any B-series engine, providing the right mm in size. I'm pretty sure Honda engineers had clearance issues checked off on their list, when they made each and every one of b-series pistons.


[Modified by Katman, 11:48 AM 12/29/2001]

 

thanx for all your replies

 

initial_B

kick@$$ cars.

 

thanks, the delly is a homegirl o' mines. girls got taste!

 

well there's 2 ways, either by crank or by piston width. It depends on the block being used. For instance, if you go 2L in a B16A block, it's better to go with a wider piston rather than a 2L crank to NOT sacrifice the rod ratio.

In a B18C or B18B/B20 block, its more optional to go with either a 2L crank or again, a wider piston. A wider piston is a better choice, since you don't sacrifice rod ratio. FYI, the B20/CRV block is just an LS block+LS 1.8L crank with a wider piston and thicker sleeves.

 

jason, are you saying that the b16a and b17a have the same block minus the cranks and rods, meaing the deck height is all the same? so the clearance will be the same with the b17 crank in the b17 and b17 crank in the b16? say, b17 crank and rods with ctr pistons in a b16 will give you the same 11.4:1ish compression as the b17 with ctr pistons?

 

haha exactly Jacky.

 

I'm so happy for this thread. I've learned alot today! Now when I do my b16 swap this summer I'll consider looking for b17 rods and crank.

 

Isn't the maximum oversized piston size you can go with is 0.25 over? 0.25 over CTR pistons in a b16a is a popular setup. Still that won't get you anywhere near 1.7l.

 

that is why you resleeve the block, with a thicker/wider sleeve which will allow an over-over sized piston. An aftermarket piston comes to mind, to be used.

 

Anyone know if you can fit an LS rod onto B16B pistons?

This thread is pretty cool.

The way I remember is this:

- all B series cranks can fit in any Bseries block

- all Bseries rods can fit all all Bseries cranks EXCEPT B18C's (thinner rod bearing 17.5mm)

- all Bseries pistons can fit on all B series rods EXCEPT B18C's (thinner at the small end by 2 mm).

You can't get 2L from a b16a block and still have a rod ratio &gt; 1.5.
Even if you bore to 87mm your displacement is 1846 cc.

Toda's 1.8L stroker kit for the B16A is a joke. It's just a 87.2 mm stroke B18C crank, ARP bolts, and 81.5mm bore: nothing you can't do yourself.

The best 2 ways of getting 2L: 85 mm JE or Wiseco off the shelf pistons and bore B18C block to 85mm or get a B20 block, bore-hone to 85 mm, and get the block blueprinted with tighter piston to wall and rod bearing clearances and use ARP rod bolts.

BTW I hate thieves that steel cars for parts. Just had to get that in there.

can you guys help me out with the CTR rods? are they the same spec (length and width) as the B16A rods?

cheers

 

"Anyone know if you can fit an LS rod onto B16B pistons?"

Yes you can -- but I believe LS rods have the same effect a B16A/B17A rod does with any 'R' piston. The wrist pin area is too fatty. You'll need to either shave about a 1.5mm off each side of the rod at the wrist pin area, or shave the inside the wrist pin area, in the piston itself. I suggest doing the rod though.


"The way I remember is this:

- all B series cranks can fit in any Bseries block..."

That's not entirely true, if you meant drop in and and go application. There's modifications that need to be done if you put a B16A crank into a GSR block or GSR crank into a B16A block. The crank's journals are not as wide as a B16's crank journals, so mods need to be made. This also applies to other honda cranks as well (not on the top of my head right now).


"- all Bseries rods can fit all all Bseries cranks EXCEPT B18C's (thinner rod bearing 17.5mm)"

Same rod journal width issues arise with other Honda cranks as well.


"- all Bseries pistons can fit on all B series rods EXCEPT B18C's (thinner at the small end by 2 mm)."

uhh..I've never heard of that one before.
Bu rom my experience, ANY b-series piston fits any b-series rod, with the exception of the R pistons series. R pistons will fit any B18C/B18C-R rod no problem, but if going on a B16A/B17A/B18A/B rod, then the rod-mod i mentioned above needs to be done.


"You can't get 2L from a b16a block and still have a rod ratio &gt; 1.5.
Even if you bore to 87mm your displacement is 1846 cc."

hmm...that's debateable. You can still keep the B16's rod ratio with any wider piston you go as long as you keep the b16's crank and rods in there. Your just putting a wider piston in which will bump up the liter size. It all depends on the maximum-width sized sleeve you can fit in a b16a.

"Toda's 1.8L stroker kit for the B16A is a joke. It's just a 87.2 mm stroke B18C crank, ARP bolts, and 81.5mm bore: nothing you can't do yourself."

You're probably right.I've never looked into Toda's stroke-my wallet kits.

"The best 2 ways of getting 2L: 85 mm JE or Wiseco off the shelf pistons and bore B18C block to 85mm or get a B20 block, bore-hone to 85 mm, and get the block blueprinted with tighter piston to wall and rod bearing clearances and use ARP rod bolts. "

yep.

"BTW I hate thieves that steel cars for parts. Just had to get that in there."

ditto.

"can you guys help me out with the CTR rods? are they the same spec (length and width) as the B16A rods?"

yep, I've had a set of these rods. ALthough I didnt get measurements of them on paper, I did compare them to B18C rods and they're the longest B-series rod. They might be useful for a B17A stroker in a B18C or B18A/B block...but I doubt it, they're too long and made to be used with a B16B/1.6L crank.

 

Ahh finally a thread.