I just bought a 1994 integra ls with 200,000 miles on it. It needs some work, mechanical and body wise, but right now i'm mainly focused on the mechanical. When i start my car, the abs light sometimes comes on as soon as i am rolling in 1st gear. At other times, it doesnt come on until i come to the first stop. I checked the code and i'm getting a code 1. Which tells me in the manual that its a pump overrun. Its not only the abs light that is bugging me, its also the performance of the brake system itself. The brake pedal goes to the floor with almost no resistance. Sometimes, I have to use the e-brake to help stop the car. What does it sound like it could be? Please give me any helpful input you might have. thanks

 

Mushy brake pedal would be air in the lines, unrelated to ABS. Bleed your brakes.

ABS pump over-run can be caused by air in the ABS fluid. Bleed the ABS after bleeding the main brakes. I know I've posted instructions, so search in the Integra forum. But be aware that beginning in '98 Integra ABS was COMPLETELY different.

If bleeding brakes then bleeding ABS doesn't help, then you can start thinking about leaking O-rings at the accumulator, or even the accumulator or pump themselves?

 

the pump is good. I removed the relay and jumped it, I could hear it come on. But about the accumulator, i dont know. Where is it located?

 

The accumulator is that steel can sitting towards the back of the ABS unit. The bleed valve is between the reservoir & the accumulator. There's a small O-ring at the base of the accumulator, that can leak but you'll see fluid leaking out. The job of the accumulator is to store high-pressure fluid for the ABS to use.

Just because you can get the pump motor to run OK, that doesn't mean the pump is OK. If the pump is going bad, then it has to run for a longer-than-normal time to pressurize the accumulator. That's what pump over-run is all about.

 

is there any way to test the pump?

p.s. i really appreciate your help. Sounds like you know what your talking about. Sorry about all the questions, but brake systems is something i am new to. I,m just trying to avoid high dealership prices. thanks

 

I don't know an easy way to test the pump. But it sorta tests itself each time you start the car. The ABS computer measures how long it takes to pump up pressure, & when it takes too long it sets code 1 -. If it's leaking out, you should be able to find fluid somewhere, & you'd get code 1-3 if it was bad enough.

After you get fresh fluid (main & ABS) & bleed all the air out of both systems, that sorta eliminates other stuff. When you say your main brakes are soft, that's the key. Fresh fluid & good bleeding procedure for brakes & ABS has to be FIRST. Don't screw with ANYTHING ELSE until you do that.

 

well, i bled the abs since it seemed to be the easiest, and the abs light is gone! I cleared the ecu, and checked it to make sure it was a true gonner. And sure enough, it is. But the pedal still travels to the floor with no resistance. I guess we could assume that the problem lies in the brake system? (air bubbles) Since it isnt throwing a code, my guess would be that its not something electrical, correct? Im gonna bleed the brake system when i get time, hoping that will cure my problems. Please let me know what you think so far.

 

Yeah, bleed the main brakes to get rid of the soft pedal. The ABS hydraulic system can't give you a soft pedal.

Is the fluid cruddy? If so, I'd suggest NOT stroking the brake pedal all the way down. Put a block under the pedal while you bleed or use a pressure-bleeder. When the master cylinder piston goes all the way down into the crud it might tear up the sharp edge of the piston seal. Then you'll have the condition where the pedal slowly & smoothly sinks to the floor while you stop at a light. If that happens you'll get to buy a new MC...

According to the Helm book, you're supposed to bleed the ABS after bleeding the main brakes. I don't exactly understand why, but just get enough fluid to do that again after bleeding the brakes.

 

will do. I'll let you know how everything goes tomorrow.

 

I bled the brakes today, and i still have the same problem with the soft pedal. There was air in the system, but the pedal still goes to the floor. What else could it be? Leaking o rings in the master cylinder?

 

I would pull the brakes apart and make sure the caliper slides are all ok. My civic pedal travel was garbage and it was because the caliper slides were frozen.

 

how hard would that be to fix?

 

not hard at all, take off the calipers and the sliders are right there, where the bolts go into

 

could be a bad master cylinder causing the pedal to go down to the floor....i had that problem with my mom's civic.

 

ive ordered a new master cyl. Hopefully that'll do it. I guess it wouldnt hurt to check the sliders too.

 

How much fluid did you bleed from each corner? Occasionally I've had to go almost a 1/2 liter from each rear before getting the last bubbles out. It seems like all the bubbles are gone, then you keep going & eventually get some more air.

But it might be a bad MC after all...

 

i figured since the car already has 200,000 miles, it wouldnt be a bad idea to replace the m.c. anyway. that way if the problem still exists, we can void out the master cylinder being a factor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec-adykt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it wouldnt be a bad idea to replace the m.c. anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>That's true.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems like all the bubbles are gone, then you keep going & eventually get some more air.</TD></TR></TABLE>But this can happen with the new one, too.

 

i removed the calipers to see if i had frozen slides, and i found that the piston was hard to compress back in. I tried beating it with a hammer and chizel, but it still wouldnt budge. So i just put the caliper on the bracket without pads for now, till i could figure out how to adjust it. This morning when i went outside, i noticed a big puddle under the same caliper i was working on. Seems that the brakefluid leaked out somehow. i am guessing i ruined the caliper by beating it. Can this be repaired or should i buy a new one.

 

Ouch... Which caliper, front or rear? Take off the wheel & see exactly where it's leaking from.

Rear pistons have to spin in, because of the auto-adjust mechanism for the handbrake. If you just push straight in with a C-clamp you can damage it. Beating with a hammer; um...

Without brake pads, the first time you press the pedal down, you can blow the piston seals out. Without actually taking it apart or looking at it firsthand, I can't tell whether anything's really damaged. Maybe you can get a rebuild kit (new rubber seals/boots) but that won't help if you bent or broke any hardware.

 

i guess i'll install new caliper along with my new master cylinder. new pads and machined rotors is already planned. hopefully this will solve my case. i'll keep you guys that have been helping me posted..

 

while i am waiting on my new master cylinder, i have another question. would a bad master cylinder cause my e-brake not to function at all? in the past, when i had to drive my car, i would use my e-brake to help slow me down at stop signs. Now since i replaced the rr caliper, it doesn't work at all. what did i screw up?

 

MC has nothing to do with handbrake.

I would guess you messed up the brake cable or something like that? Better yet, adjusting the handbrake.

When you put in new rear brake pads, you have to spin the caliper pistons in to make room for the thicker pads. A new caliper probably has the piston in all the way to begin with.

Turn the piston only far enough to make room for the new pads, not all the way. Or turn it counterclockwise to bring the piston back out a bit. You don't want the brakes dragging, but you don't want TOO MUCH room for the pads.

Install the calipers, hook up the handbrake cables. Adjust the cable under the console, thru backseat ashtray or remove rear console. You want the levers on the calipers to be just barely moved off from their stop when the handbrake lever is down.

Now, the auto-adjusting ratchet mechanism inside the caliper has to 'catch up' with the new position of the pistons. Step on the brakes maybe 50 times, or pull the handbrake up & down maybe 50 times. (Gotta check the manual, I forget which one you're supposed to do.)

 

i should've checked how much more room i left with the brake pads. Guess i'll make an adjustment. thanks

 

well, i replaced the master cylinder today. I know i need to bleed the brakes and master now, but is the pedal supposed to go all the way to the floor still while its running? I guess this is what you call air in the lines? The pedal does feel stouter when the car is off.