Can anyone recommend a good piggy back fuel management system that is not un-godly priced..............would u recommend the Greddy E-manage. id like to keep it in the 100-600 dollar range............

 

http://www.pgmfi.org
http://www.tunewithcrome.com

 

is crome, uberdata, turbotune,ect.... still conciderd piggyback fuel managment? i thought it was only piggy back if it altered sensor signals to lie to the ecu. if you were just saying those are good tuning options i understand, im just wondering if they are still refered to as piggyback?

 

those are considered piggyback

 

can someone explain exactly what makes a piggy back system a piggy back system? i thought it was concidered a piggyback when it took a voltage (map, MAF, ect...) and alterted it to lie to the ecu to get it to run richer or leaner. i thought when a tuning system actually takes the correct voltage/readings from the sensor but and uses an actualy fuel map, like a factoty ecu, it was nolonger concidered a piggyback system.

 

all them you just listed is all messing with your air and fuel. so this makes it a piggy back.... but if you would like to fool with your fuel system yourself get a apexi VAFC,SAFC or FIELDS to start off with their not the greatest in the world but it'll get you somewhere....

 

no offence man, but i dont think you understood my question..... because those systems change your a/f that makes it a piggyback? any tuning system will adjust your a/f... that is the point of tuning, and the systems i listed will also adjust your ignition timing. so what makes these systems piggyback? As i stated previously, it was my understanding that piggyback systems take a voltage being produeced by a sensor, and then alterte it to trick the ecu into adding or taking away fuel. with the uberdata/crome/turbotune ect... all these systems actually look at the sensors voltages, and then make a injector pulse width/ignition timing decision based on the actual readings.... i have personally used the afc hack, and understand how it works... i dont know. someone help me out, cause i think im confusing myself more than i have to

 

you've confused me also to be honest haha... wish i could help you...

 

no prob man, thanks for trying

 

wow, no one knows? thats weird...

 

oh god, someone has to know

 

ok so ive been doing sum research and ive found that piggy backs are not good for a honda. here is what one site has to say......

Piggy Back controllers allow stock ECUs to do things that they normally can't do, like run larger injectors or deal with boost. Remember that piggyback controllers work by altering sensor signals before they get to the ECU.

Most of the time, the primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is critically important in a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel.

The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used. (see Understanding Maps if you need some help understanding reading Fuel and Ign tables)

But wait, isn't the Map Sensor used for determining ignition requirements too? When you "lean" out a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood advanced timing. When you "richen" a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood retarded timing. Look at trends horizontally (as MAP changes) in an ignition table, and you will see why this happens. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.

The bottom line: Piggy Back Controllers suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and often this is undesirable.

..................................any thoughts...........?

 

come on, somone in this forum has to be able to explain why/if crome and similar tuning systems are conciderd piggyback

 

Crome, Hondata, Neptune, etc, are NOT piggyback's. They are programs used to work on the stock code.

Things like the VAFC, SFC-VTEC, E-Manage, etc, are piggybacks, as they intercept the signals going to and from the stock ecu and modify them.

 

thankyou! that is what i thought