Searching on google for a new type of ACL bearing I cam across this
https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1

Many people bitch about the ACL bearings only coming in 1 grade, close to the green. Well no ****, you are supposed to get your mains align honed. Only once in this thread do I hear machine work mentioned.

ACL are better than OEM due to tri-metal construction, they come in STD and oversize.

Anytime you rebuild a powerful motor and spec the mains, they should be align honed if out of spec. Dont just go get the different grade OEM's, do the proper machine work and get better than OEM bearings for cheaper. If you want with the extra money saved you can get them WPC treated or coated.

WPC trestment is the bomb.

Thats it, thats my rant. I am going back to my beloved Nissan forums now.

 

wow.........this was a usefull post......

yes.....please go back to your nissan forum

 

It appears from the previous thread that it is a useful post, since 99% of the people on that thread just put em if they were "close"

Now they know to align hone!

 

to make you a little smarter, little less ignorant:

oem honda bearings are tri-metal, making them a better choice if your clearances dont allow you to run acl's

why would you line hone a perfectly good block? hone a good block only to be able to use 1 size bearings.. lol

 

not all oem bearings are tri metal....ls bearings for example arent...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pomansouth01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not all oem bearings are tri metal....ls bearings for example arent...</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes they are

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fro20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Many people bitch about the ACL bearings only coming in 1 grade, close to the green. Well no ****, you are supposed to get your mains align honed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes they are</TD></TR></TABLE>

No they aren't. At least the rod bearings.

 

Well that is cool that the honda, at least some are tri-metal.

Why would you align hone a prefectly good block? just call up ERL performance and ask or go herehttp://www.erlperformance.com/

Read their material and look at their honda products and see who knows more, you or them.

The fastest sport compacts out there say them. Some of you honda guys know your shi and build some really good motors, and some of you rice kings are just rediculous, that goes for any sport compact group, but you can't deny the riciest cars out there are some Honda owners.

I am not trying to bash anyone. I love my buddies civegra and his little sir2 motor. It is a hell of a lot of fun. Just see alot of *** clowns in the honda market, countered by some godly engine knowledge.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

why would you line hone a perfectly good block? hone a good block only to be able to use 1 size bearings.. lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>

To make u a little smarter it is ALIGN HONE, not line hone

 

hmm...I stand corrected until my source chimes in....if he does....

I was told not to buy oem bearings for my build...I have a ls bottom end....because they arent tri metal and because I am using aftermarket rods....do you have anything that shows the construction of the bearings mmuller??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whatever man, run some ACL's without align hone and we will see who's motor lasts longer, mine or yours.

 

By align honing do you also shave material from the main caps and then hone the bores? Otherwise there is no way to take a bore that is already too big and make it fit a smaller bearing by align honing. Also, by align honing you could change the overall location of the crankshaft which can cause oil pump issues.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fro20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whatever man, run some ACL's without align hone </TD></TR></TABLE>

Done.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and we will see who's motor lasts longer, mine or yours.</TD></TR></TABLE>


It's been running strong for 2 years now.


FYI, the only people who promote line (sic) honing/boring are the ones who perform the service and have something to gain. If you want to throw away your money, by all means, go for it.

Things to keep in mind:

1. Line boring requires milling down the main caps/girdle which raises the crank position. The change is minute, but then again, if you are running a setup such as a d16 with a notched block, you don't have much room for error. Nonetheless, my engine geometry is not something I'd like to fool with.

2. More importantly, the whole "bearing clearance" debate is one of the last things I would ever worry about. 99% of the time, spun bearings are the result of improper bolt tension. People still to this day can't grasp the concept of how to properly torque rod bolts. If you throw in some ACL bearings and torque the rod/main bolts correctly, you'll be fine.

Are my 1-5 main bearing clearances all perfectly identical? No. Do I care? No. Pretty much everything else in the motor is going to wear out before the bearings do. Boosted motors don't last. The compression will start to fail, the rings will go, the cylinders will wear out, the valve guides/seals will go, the cams/rockers will wear out... I'm sure I won't have any bearing problems by the time I'm ready for a rebuild.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pomansouth01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ls bottom end....because they arent tri metal</TD></TR></TABLE>
correct

if you can hit the clearances you want with acl bearings, go for it. i used them, all clearances were within the servicable limits.

they're not a death sentence LOL

personally i would swap blocks before align honing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mahatma &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">correct

if you can hit the clearances you want with acl bearings, go for it. i used them, all clearances were within the servicable limits.

they're not a death sentence LOL

personally i would swap blocks before align honing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you have any supporting evidence on hand?? I am in agreeance with you but cant pull anything up to prove the point...

 

To align hone you put the block on a lathe of sorts, then bolt the caps around it. The lathe then hones the blobk/mains to be with in such and such limits. This is not only done when a block has had a bearing issue.

The girdle will ot need to be altered, the crank stays centered on the mains, it does not move closer to the deck so it will not affect oil pump/crank placement.

Here is a Honda block now getting align honed.

ex.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fro20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To align hone you put the block on a lathe of sorts, then bolt the caps around it. The lathe then hones the blobk/mains to be with in such and such limits. This is not only done when a block has had a bearing issue.

The girdle will ot need to be altered, the crank stays centered on the mains, it does not move closer to the deck so it will not affect oil pump/crank placement.</TD></TR></TABLE>


That's not how it works. You need to mill down the girdle before boring/honing. The only way around it is if you intend for the final bore to come out larger, in which case you can compensate for it with oversized bearings.

I don't know why you think anything you are presenting to us is new information. This dead horse has been beaten and re-beaten time and time again.

 

So align honing in such a manner can only remove material correct? So lets say that my block is stamped with a "D' for a main which is the largest bore. Now you align hone it which makes the bore even bigger. Are you saying you now throw an ACL Bearing in? If an ACL is like a green there is no way that your clearance will be right. This may work when the block is stamped with an A or a B but doesnt help at all when its a C or D. I must be missing something here. Please explain.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fro20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

To make u a little smarter it is ALIGN HONE, not line hone</TD></TR></TABLE>

mmm line honing align honing.. same thing. sunnen prefers line honing.
it seems like your here more to argue and nitpick than to be helpfull


anyways, as far as ls bearing being bi-metal; mains are all the same on b-series (trimetal)
ls rod bearings; i was pretty sure they were trimetal also since they are pretty much the same thing as b16/b17 bearing but with an oil squirter hole on them.

i went and cut some bearings tonite, maybe to make this a little more informative,
found acl mains and rod and oem mains. i know i got some ls rod bearings somewhere, have to find them.

here is a pic of 2 mains and a rod bearing, acl, oem, acl
you can see the 3 layers

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18bEKcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So align honing in such a manner can only remove material correct? So lets say that my block is stamped with a "D' for a main which is the largest bore. Now you align hone it which makes the bore even bigger. Are you saying you now throw an ACL Bearing in? If an ACL is like a green there is no way that your clearance will be right. This may work when the block is stamped with an A or a B but doesnt help at all when its a C or D. I must be missing something here. Please explain.</TD></TR></TABLE>


to do it properly you must remove all the main caps. extract all the dowel pins from the main caps. machine the mating surfaces of the main caps so that once they are bolted onto the block again they are NOT perfectly round anymore. you install all new dowel pins in the main caps then proceed to align hone the main bores.

it's important not to remove much if any material from the block. you need to take material away from the main caps.

it's allot of work.....any is not really needed especially if the clearances all come out good to begin with. plus like stated earlier.....if it's not done properly you can screw up the crank centerline and run into oil pump problems.

 

Thats awesome. At least there is one informative thing that came out of this post. I would really like to see an LS rod bearing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18bEKcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats awesome. At least there is one informative thing that came out of this post. I would really like to see an LS rod bearing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

let me find them and ill take some pics tom. or so; have ls, other than gsr b'ees and sohc. they are all going to the knife

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18bEKcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So align honing in such a manner can only remove material correct? So lets say that my block is stamped with a "D' for a main which is the largest bore. Now you align hone it which makes the bore even bigger. Are you saying you now throw an ACL Bearing in? If an ACL is like a green there is no way that your clearance will be right. This may work when the block is stamped with an A or a B but doesnt help at all when its a C or D. I must be missing something here. Please explain.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depending on how much needs to be taken off, ACL makes oversized bearings

.025 over. If you want to run standard then yes, some of the cap is milled so more material can be taken off and keep it within spec.

I know Nissan motors and the girdle does not need to be milled, maybe on the Honda. I dont know what the Honda girdle looks like other than the ERL 5 point.

As far as it not being done right... why would you go to a shop where it might not be done right.

Anyway, I am done being the ******* guy from another forum now. I just saw the original thread I linked and it pissed me off that only 1 time was machine work mentioned when speaking of using a std size bearing.

Plz lock the thread or ban me, I dont give a shi. I wont be back, I dont even drive a Honduuuuuhhhhh

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">let me find them and ill take some pics tom. or so; have ls, other than gsr b'ees and sohc. they are all going to the knife</TD></TR></TABLE>

give em the knife yo!! for imformative info!!!