Corksil

Hey HT, i'm designing the brake system for my car.

i've heard of people removing the booster (big black cylindrical thing MC bolts to?) and using some aftermarket blockoff plate.

I like the look of this mod, but i've heard it can be dangerous.

I don't quite understand what the booster does (boosts something, obviously)

and why would it be dangerous to remove on a daily driver?

thanks for helping me understand!

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

So you're designing a brake system but have no clue what a brake booster does? Ever drive a car with "manual" brakes? I have.
I would LOVE to see someone actually search before posting a question.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...ower-brake.htm
http://downstarinc.com/Shop/index.ph...d&productId=51

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

In case no one wants to actually click the link.
"The brake booster uses vacuum from the engine to multiply the force that your foot applies to the master cylinder."

Former User

Don't remove the brake booster. That would be dangerous.

Mitchness

Yeah, manual brakes are a PITA to operate. You can do it, but it greatly diminishes your braking power, and would get very tiring to operate after only a short while. If anything you should upgrade it if your del is still running a single diaphragm booster.

kaiba

Test it yourself. Remove the vacuum hose. Cap off both booster and nipple on the manifold. Test it on a close road at low safe speed. See you you like it.

Corksil

Alright. I have read the links and I am informed.

Deleting the brake booster with the block-plate would convert my car to manual brakes without a power assist of any kind.

Now, on all OEM honda components - everything in the brake system is designed to work together with power assistance. I agree that removing the brake booster would be dangerous, as it takes an important link out of honda's brake system design.

Assuming I upgrade the front brakes to 11.1" disc w/type-R calipers, and upgrade the rears to 10.3" disc - use an aftermarket adjustable proportioning valve and tune the front/rear balance myself, upgrade the rubber lines to SS, AND use the oversized ITR 1" master cylinder ---- would it still be dangerous to run this setup without a booster?

By upgrading all the above mentioned components and using the redesigned system on a >2000lb car - will the 'manual' brakes without power assist be adequate?

Corksil

and is there a larger booster I can install? assuming i stay with power brakes, i want the most powerful power brakes :D

NotAJDMFanBoy

I think an Accord/Prelude master cylinder and booster will bolt in. Space wise, it may be a pain getting it in. I have a GSR swap with an ITR style manifold and when I put an Integra RS master cylinder/booster in, I had to take the booster off the master cylinder and twist and turn it a little to get it in.

92lxsleeper

if you want the most powerful brakes that will bolt on with minor mods, try a brake mastercylinder out of a vw TDI. the diesels use the power steering pump to "make' power brakes.

Corksil

i'm trying to picture this but i can't. so TDI would have a larger MC (that would bolt up fine) and fit on the original booster?

and is it more powerful because it's bigger or because it's designed to be part of a different system and operates differently?

thanks man

apexi_rsx

u would be taking the booster off to run the VW MC and it would be connected or "T"'d off ur power steering line. if your not running a power steering pump this is not going to be a good option for you. im currently running the wilwood chase bays booster delete system. as they all say it takes alot more foot pressure to stop the car without the assist. they are very stiff (like when u pump the brakes with the key off) u definately need to take ur time braking when not using a booster to stop. i daily mine this way u just have to anticipate ur stops sooner. im sure with a big brake system would help your stopping ability's without the booster.

zccivicex

iTrader: (1)

removing the hose on your stock brake setup is nothing like driving one a booster delete setup....NOTHING! you have to apply a little more force to the pedal and if its so dangerous we do more and more 9-10 sec cars keep popping up with booster delete setups?

Corksil

I keep hearing this. "you have to apply a LITTLE more force to the pedal"

A little is a matter of personal experience. I have none of this experience. Is a ''little'' a lot or a little. or a tiny little or a big little.... that's why i made this post, cuz I'm trying to figure out how much a 'little' is or is not.

i'm 160lb, physically fit 6ft. I would rather have braking feel than a huge booster and driving around trying not to lock up the front wheels with only a random guess where the lockup point is.

If i run a manual braking setup (without power assist) how is the car for daily driving?

I don't loan my car to anyone else (liability) and I drive actively and aggressively (as opposed to passive, where i space out and think about something else and then look up and see a car and have to hit the brakes hard.)

thanks HT

apexi_rsx

Definately you would not stop fast enough if ur cruising 50mph it prob takes 200-300ft to stop without the booster set up. thats how it is on my manual set up. if u drive responsibly and always aware when driving it can work. it does stop the car efficiently enough.

frankenghia

your brakes would be harder to depress, making the car harder to stop. All my air cooled vws have manual brakes that work just fine. However!!! They are designed to do this. Removing a booster will make your car very hard to stop. It may take quite a bit of force to stop it......

Corksil

After reading a few posts up that you have to start/plan your braking 2-300ft sooner I have come to the conclusion that.... a manual brake setup would not be optimal for performance driving such as autocross or spirited rally driving on a closed course.

The possible benefit from 'increased pedal feel' seems like it's negligible in light of needing to plan your braking sooner. Not that there's anything wrong with my reaction times - but what if you're coming around a blind corner at 40mph and there's a rock in the road that tumbled off the hill next to it? And a car coming in the other lane?

Power assisted brakes ftw. No i just have to figure out how to bolt everything up without being toooo powerful. (brake system for 3600lb gvw minivan swapped to 1800lb go-kart CRX)

thanks to everyone who replied.

frankenghia

Im not completely sure there is such a thing but adjustable porportioning valves.......

Corksil

i've seen adjustable prop valves. i know someone makes them, don't remember who.

NOFX

You'll need to mention what year/model/trim when you ask questions like these in this section btw.

Corksil

oh sorry.

I know it will be a CRX - I don't have information on the year (88-91) or the trim (DX, HF, SI) as I have not yet purchased the car.

I am flying to a different place to buy the car and ship it back home where I live between nov22 and jan1.

Do all (88-91) CRXs share the same booster boltup pattern? (im assuming so as i have found no information otherwise and i have been looking)

so
88-91 crx DX/Si/Hf (I can't be any more specific) :S

NOFX

Hmm... I'm not sure.

But this isn't the CRX section. This is the '92-'00 section. Not sure if the parts suggested might be different. I figured it might not be a '92+ when you said the car weighed under 2,000 lbs.

Corksil

whoops. i started the thread askin about power/manual brakes (in general - this 92-95civic has the most traffic)

i'll go start a new thread in CRX sub-forum.

thanks for pointing that out.

Schister66

I want to design a new braking system for my car.

Can someone explain how brakes work?

Corksil

durrrrr we all have to start somewhere. this thread is dead.

i'm makin a new one with new questions.