texcon

I posted this in another thread but wanted to start a new thread to get more opinions. Here is what I posted before:

I have a 2000 Civic EX with ~120k miles on it. I have no aftermarket suspension parts on my car, it's 100% stock (and original for the most part). I took my Civic to get an alignment last week and the shop (which I have used before for other work) said that the manufacturer does not specify a rear camber adjustment and also does not specify front camber AND caster adjustments. Based on what I read here, that is true.

So I pulled out my service manual (not Haynes, but the real shop manual) and it DOES specify camber and caster settings for the front and rear (or at least states what factory specs are). To make things even more confusing, I took my Civic to get an alignment ~2 years ago at a different location under the same company name (local repair company) and they charged me additionally for "shim labor", implying that the alignment is at least partially adjustable. The most recent shop said I would need to install some aftermarket front caster adjusters and some rear camber adjusters since the factory parts don't allow for any adjustment. I didn't let them install these parts, they wanted like $1300 for all 4 wheels

Can someone advise on what is correct? If my camber/caster settings are out of spec but they cannot adjust either, then what does your experience suggest I look at? Does that imply some other suspension parts are worn? I know the trailing arm bushings are worn and will be replacing those myself soon. That could be the cause of the rear camber being out of spec.


Here are my Civic's current alignment specs the shop gave me:

Front left: Camber -0.2*, Caster 2.9*, Toe 0.13*

Front right: Camber 0.1*, Caster 3.5*, Toe 0.10*

Rear left: Camber -2.6*, Toe 0.13*

Rear right: Camber -2.8*, Toe -0.35*


Here are the factory specs for a 1996-2000 Civic:

Front Alignment SPECS

Toe in: 1mm ± 2mm (0.040 ± 0.080 in.)
Camber: 0° ± 1º
Caster: 1°40’ ± 1°

Rear Alignment SPECS

Toe in: 2mm + 2, -1mm (0.080 + 0.080, -0.040 in.)
Camber: -1° ± 1°

TunerN00b

Worn bushings can leave a car sitting outside of factory alignment specifications.

However, I think the real question is, why was the crash damage on this car not repaired correctly? For the caster to be that far off, one of the balljoints would need to have been moved over 1" longitudinally.

For rear camber, if the car is sitting lower than stock (for whatever reason), that could explain it.

Caster can be adjusted on that car, but it isn't a normal procedure to do so. The subframe can be shifted, which is rather difficult and time consuming to do.

I'd start with a complete bushing inspection and go from there.

texcon

Thanks, I am taking the wheels off and doing a thorough inspection this weekend. Any bushings and ball joints will be replaced accordingly.

What crash damage are you referring to? Maybe I am mis-understanding you. Since my last alignment, I have not been in any accidents, haven't hit any curbs, etc. I am sure I have hit pot holes, but nothing out of the ordinary.

My car was last aligned in June 2008 and the specs were:

Front left: Camber 0.0*, Caster 2.8*, Toe 0.02*

Front right: Camber -0.2*, Caster 2.7*, Toe 0.02*

Rear left: Camber -1.9*, Toe 0.05*

Rear right: Camber -1.9*, Toe 0.12*

TunerN00b

Your caster is way off. Since it isn't adjustable, and doesn't change with ride height, generally something needs to be bent to be that far off. How does one bend parts without a crash?

I do stand behind the previous statement of starting with a complete bushing inspection. Replace as needed. Then go get the car aligned again to see how far out of spec it is.

texcon

LOL, I assure you that I have not been in ANY car wrecks in this car :D So one too many pot holes or whatever, Houston has it's fair share. 11+ years and 120k miles will catch up with you.

I would suspect that I have a bad ball joint(s) up front and the worn trailing arm bushings are part of the problem in the rear, if not all of the problem.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

Kick@$$Bruno

Your trailing arm bushings will have a affect on camber if they are worn bad enough. You could always check your ride height too, since you have the factory book, in there should tell you where to measure. If you hit potholes hard enough, and your bump stops are eatin away.(which i have seen happen at lower milage) You could have bent the strut rod. You could check that by turning the strut rod 90 degrees and seeing if it changes your specs on the alignment rack. Problem is you will need an alignment rack. and a shop will not due that for free.

Wheelnut65

Hi Texcon.
Was wondering how you were able to fix your camber. Just got myself a 1999 civic SIR and after alignment they said my caster on the right was off. The car is bone stock without suspension adjustability for caster and camber, so the car pulls slightly to the right.
Was hoping I could get your help. Thanks in advance.

TunerN00b

Caster can certainly cause a pull to one side. Same thing I said years ago to texcon applies here: