I have springs and shocks/struts on my 97 civic coupe, and i was wondering if a front strut bar is accually worth getting?

 

Track events > bling parts

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bob41699 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have springs and shocks/struts on my 97 civic coupe, and i was wondering if a front strut bar is accually worth getting?</TD></TR></TABLE>

one could possibly make the argument that there is a quantifiable effect, but only on a MacStrut car.

In this specific case I'm going to say

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Track events &gt; bling parts</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

they might, but there are like 100 things you could buy that do make a definite difference. why take a chance?

like rj said, track time is great. but even a swaybar would be infinitely more useful than a STB.

 

I saw a definite improvement when I put mine on. I really didn't believe it would make much of a difference but it did. Much better steering feel under hard cornering. Then again I have an older car (92) and the roads are really bad up here so my chassis probably needed more that your 97 California car does.

If you have doubts, ask yourself this ; why would Honda install one as original equipement on higher end Civics and Integras? And it's not like Honda is a generous manufacturer when it comes to standard features so my bet is its there for a reason.

 

Strut bars usually make a difference, but it depends from car model to car model tho... for example, a rear upper strut bar won't have much effect on an integra, but for some other car, say, maybe a subaru wrx, might have a bigger impact etc.

you should read other forums online and find out the characteristic of your car and decide if a strut bar will improve your handling or not... (it will most probably improve, but by how much? and is it worth it?)

but in general, just throw all the bars (solid, well designed ones) into your car, and is all good. LOL

 

I wouldn't spend more than $20 on one

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't spend more than $20 on one </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't spend more than $20 on one </TD></TR></TABLE>

Me either, and I've spent as much as $150 for one in the past, saw no noticeable difference between the pricey name-brand and the $20 no-namer. Overall, I didn't notice much of an effect at all, on either my 92 or 00 Civic. Sway bars and springs made the big difference, save up for those first. (In your case, just the sway bars I suppose)

 

first of all, lets not make any comparisons of a strut bar to a sway bar. two completely different things that effect the car in very different ways.

i dont see why so many ppl cannot believe there is any benefit of chassis stiffening, and that in order to believe in it requires some drastic changes to occur or be felt to make the addition functional.

ive installed a neuspeed strut bar to two CRX's ive owned. both at the time were on stock suspension. there was a definate improvement in steering response. looking back, i remember first thinking this is some kind of "understeer/oversteer" change. but honestly, i didnt know what i was talking about and didnt know how to express the change that i felt. it was just a quicker steering response. and as one would expect when you stiffen the chassis.

now the effect of chassis stiffening could very well be different on a CRX to an DC integra, that those who say strut bars are "bling" who have used it on an integra didnt feel any more effect. but that doesnt mean they are pointless in concept.

but it should be pointed out that a "strut" bar was mainly designed for cars with macpherson "strut" suspension, which suspension forces are at the top of the strut tower. this is different than honda double wishbone. so its certain that a car with actual macpherson strut suspension would benefit more from a strut bar. but theres still a massive gaping hole in the middle of the front end to deal with as the chassis is unevenly loaded from one angle.

look at ppl who have installed korbach framelocks. theres an inherent benefit in stiffening the front of the car, where the wheels steer the car and can also flex. and the fairly objective reviews ive read (jeremy's in particular) dont say HUGE changes occur, but subtle changes in steering response and feel. to some ppl, thats worth spending $80 or $280, or whatever. but dont say it does NOTHING.

i think a better point would be that its INEFFECTIVE, such as in the rear where there isnt as much going on back there to stiffen. stiffening the hatch like ive seen seems even more rather pointless. i can see no point in stiffening the hatch, other than to calm some rattles.

 

It makes a difference... if you are into cornering then i'd say it would be a good thing to invest 20-30 bucks in for the f&r pair on ebay.... but as was mentioned before sway bars would make way more of a noticable difference...

 

When I added my Spoon front and rear upper tie bars, I noticed a difference, but it was after doing sway bars (26F/22R) and upgrading the shocks/springs (GC/Koni 400F/300R). There was an increase in steering response and the rear end "felt" a little more solid.

In the end, I'd say it was worth it. I say, if you do it, get yourself a quality piece that doesn't have adjustable ends on it.

Latez,

Paul

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zman15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I added my Spoon front and rear upper tie bars, I noticed a difference, but it was after doing sway bars (26F/22R) and upgrading the shocks/springs (GC/Koni 400F/300R). There was an increase in steering response and the rear end "felt" a little more solid.

In the end, I'd say it was worth it. I say, if you do it, get yourself a quality piece that doesn't have adjustable ends on it.

Latez,

Paul</TD></TR></TABLE>

How can you say that the difference you felt was specifically from the shock tower bars (strut bars) when you made multiple, drastic changes?

You can't.

Furthermore, if shock tower bars had a huge effect on double wishbone suspension cars I would see every Nationally Competitive, in the hunt for a Championship autocrosser running a double wishbone car slapping them on, but the contrary is true, most are taking them off.

Maybe if you weld the ******* thing on........

 

Then why did Honda put them on the EG6 and DC2 and optional in the rear of the DC2?

They must do something.. I've never seen Honda add something suspension wise that doesnt do ****.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How can you say that the difference you felt was specifically from the shock tower bars (strut bars) when you made multiple, drastic changes?

You can't.

Furthermore, if shock tower bars had a huge effect on double wishbone suspension cars I would see every Nationally Competitive, in the hunt for a Championship autocrosser running a double wishbone car slapping them on, but the contrary is true, most are taking them off.

Maybe if you weld the ******* thing on........</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude...go back and reread my post...I said AFTER I did all that ****. Damn man...one word at a time...

I was just trying to emphasize that they were a nice accessory to the package, but not really necessary.

Latez,

Paul

 

I had 4 different strut bars on my Civic (front upper/lower and rear upper/lower). I put them all in at the same time and the only one I actually did remove was the rear upper. I used to remove it when I had to transport crap, as in moving or going snowboarding. I did notice a definite difference in handling. I felt the steering response was definitely more precise and more sensitive, to the point where I actually liked it better WITHOUT the bar on. I'd say its a personal preference, but I felt by removing it that it gave the car a little cushion in the steering. Because with it on, any little movement in the steering wheel would translate to motion in the car. I did lane changes like nothing, which kinda scared me, probably because I'm not used to it.

 

Honda can do things like check torsional ridgitity and farm empirical data to support what they do.

Do any of you in this thread saying that your strut bars make a difference have any of that equipment?

No empirical evidence no care........

 

I ran some autocross runs with front and rear bar on and off, any combination thereof. Having the front offered a little more "precision" yet otherwise didn't effect time by a vast amount. This is a '99 Si, Koni Yello/GC 375/250 give or take with a Comptech rear anti-roll bar. The front bar was the factory stock. The rear bas is a home made parallal-tube 1" dia heavy gauge conduit (weighs about 10lb, you can probably tow the car with it). That Comptech bar helps the most overall...

Every time I race, I wish I had some of the tools that Honda does for frame analysis or drag coefficent calculation (wind tunnel!)...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No empirical evidence no care........</TD></TR></TABLE>

i hate to be the geek who has to make his point using definitions, but you asked for it.

em·pir·i·cal (ĕm-pîr'ĭ-kəl)
adj.

1. Relying on or derived from observation or experiment: empirical results that supported the hypothesis.
2. Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment:

ive given you my observation from experimenting and analysis WITH the bar installed, and WITHOUT the bar installed --- TWICE. and the conclusion both times is that it makes a difference, in so subtle a way of feel and initial steering response at the least, if maybe just the most.


and for gods sake, ppl stop making comments about SWAY bars with STRUT bars in the same sentence, you all sound like idiots who dont even have a clue other than they start with the same letter.




Modified by Tyson at 12:39 AM 2/16/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Furthermore, if shock tower bars had a huge effect on double wishbone suspension cars I would see every Nationally Competitive, in the hunt for a Championship autocrosser running a double wishbone car slapping them on, but the contrary is true, most are taking them off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

guess where i got this quote from?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tie Bars - tie bars are good to firm up the chassis. I've had people try to argue that the front upper tie bar doesn't do much, and that's crap. Their argument is that the cornering forces don't act on the shock towers in such a way that you need the strengthening that the front upper tie bar gives, but these same people run 8-point roll cages.... so it's no wonder. An upper tie bar makes more of a difference on a strut suspension like the new Civic, but it still makes a positive difference on the 88-00 Civic. I ran the upper front bar only on both my cars, but that's because I never got around to putting the others on. I'd recommend them all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/ChrisTech.htm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">guess where i got this quote from?

http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/ChrisTech.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>

don't get me wrong, i'm sure shenfield is fast and knows his car, but can you really isolate something like this solely based on feel? from an auto-x perspective, sometimes it feels faster to overdrive the car, even if its not--the only way you can tell is with the help of the timing equipment. as far as these bars go, do they make a difference? maybe. but there's no way to prove it, rather, no one has proven it yet with numbers and estimated deflections and whatnot--and you know what? i don't think anyone ever will. there are simply too many variables that come into play to be able to scientifically ascertain whether these things work or not.

so you can argue that they feel better, and someone else can argue that they're a waste of money, but quickly the discussion quickly becomes a religious argument with neither side really having any hard evidence to back their claims.

 

i had a spoon front upper strut bar on my car threw 2 different set ups.


1- AGX's and GC with integra rates, and 19mm rear sway bar.

I couldn't tell weather it was on there or not, did blined tests with a frind of mine and neither one of us could tell a difference.

2- koni yellow's with GC coils and 375f/450r. and comptech rearsway

same thing couldn't tell one dan bit of differance either way.


so i sold it for 100 bucks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and for gods sake, ppl stop making comments about SWAY bars with STRUT bars in the same sentence, you all sound like idiots who dont even have a clue other than they start with the same letter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

...or end w/ the same word

 

strut bars stiffen your chassis, and thus, improve the weight transition between front and back... the effect of a strut bar is multiply when you use it with a stronger/bigger swaybars (front or back) even more if your suspension is upgraded.

and those of you who say don't spend more than 20$ on a strut bar because they don't do jack ****... it is BECAUSE you spend 20$ on those CRAP bar, that is why they don't do jackshit...

http://www.team-integra.net/fo...Topic

I didn't spend a lot of money into bars, but i got both REAL JDM ITR STRUT bars (front & back) for about 100$ and i must say, they do more the jackshit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by codenamezero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">strut bars stiffen your chassis, and thus, improve the weight transition between front and back... the effect of a strut bar is multiply when you use it with a stronger/bigger swaybars (front or back) even more if your suspension is upgraded.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Sounds like you're just regurgitating stuff you read somewhere.

"improve weight transition" makes absolutely zero sense.