sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

Background:
OK so..I just recently swapped my motor over from a LS to a GSR chassis, did the abs-removal on it. I bought the Integra RS MC, which was part number 46100-ST7-013, bought the 40/40 prop valve, and the four RS front brake lines, and they all fit up perfectly. I wasn't sure about the which brake booster to use, so I just got one from a buddy. Now from what I've been reading lately, you're not supposed to be able to use a non-abs mc on an abs brake booster because i guess they are supposed to have different bolt patterns?, but my LS brake booster looks the exact same as the one that is on my car, and my non-abs mc bolts onto it just fine.

Problem:
Driving was fine at first when i got everything together, and then the pedal slowly started getting stiffer and stiffer, and eventually all four brakes locked up. To get it to release, I ended up bleeding the two front calipers. After that, it drove fine for a while, and then same thing, pedal got stiffer, and they started to lock up.

I know the search function is my friend, i've read about 30 threads on this topic, and i'm pretty sure i couldn't find ONE that actually had a conclusion, with how they fixed the problem. I have tried adjusting the rod going to the mc, and it did nothing. I just bought another brake booster (used of course) that was supposed to have come from an integra RS and looks the exact same as the one that is currently on there. I don't know what to do. We have bled the brakes quite a bit, i'm pretty sure there is no air in the lines, since the pedal doesn't feel spongy at all. I have also read that the master cylinder is supposed to sit flat up against the booster without having any resistance when installing it, weird thing is, mine has about 1/4 inch gap before i feel like i'm actually pushing the mc on. I checked on my old car and it sits flush, so i know something is wrong. Do i just keep getting the wrong brake boosters or what?? Also, idk if this means anything, but after i turn the motor off (and it doesnt matter whether its been 10 seconds or 10 minutes) if i take the hose off of the brake booster, it lets out alot of pressure, is it supposed to do that? Would it be possible that my check valve is on backwards?

Input please!

brake booster i just bought that is supposed to be from integra rs:







And here is how far it sits down onto the brake booster without resistance

likwid2u

this happened to me before my check valve went bad and all my brakes locked up next to a cop on a bike...... he shook his head smiled and rode off

Dogginator

Did you adjust the MC and booster push rods?

pooplooger

the check valve could be bad or backwards but you said the car had ABS but doesnt any more? did you change the lines cuz the hold and release valves in the lines could be freezing up not letting the pressure back out

whiteDC4in910

same thing happened to me but it was the proportioning valve going to ****

kommon_sense

x2 . You *MUST* use the honda pushrod adjustment tool to have any hopes of properly setting the gap between the 2. Improper adjustment will impact your pedal effort. If the adjusted gap is too small, you will lock up prematurely. If the adjusted gap is too large, you won't have good pedal pressure.

sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

lol well i mean, i attempted to adjust it but idk how much good it did. I ended up grinding a 17mm wrench down so it was thinner and cut open a 14mm wrench to get the star nut, but like i said, idk if i "properly" adjusted it. I dont think it is the proportioning valve as it is brand new, i know brand new stuff can be bad, but still.. as for changing the lines, which lines would i change besides the four front ones? The two back ones are the same ones used on the non-abs integras. I will also try a new check valve, i checked a few other cars and its not on backwards.

sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

So..i tried a new check valve, still locking up

pooplooger

by what it sounds the the brake boosters bad. it would cause the pedal to be hard cuz its not multiplying the pressure and prob not realesing the pressure its building.

kommon_sense

1) IIRC, the tolerance is less than 0.1mm. You can't do it properly without the honda tool
2) You must be applying vacuum to the booster to get proper positioning of the pushrod to do #1.

So, I think you are going to go in circles until you can verify proper adjustment. I hate to keep harping on the tool, but you really can't do proper adjustment without it. I ended up buying the tool myself when I realized this

However, you can attempt backing off on the adjustment 1/4-1/2 turn at a time and see if your lockup problem persists.

Since you are experiencing 4-wheel lockup, I really think the problem is in between the pedals/booster/mc.

kommon_sense

A bad booster won't provide assist and the pedal effort will be hard. There isn't any pressure building. Pressure is directly related to the pedal position/effort. So since he is locking up, I believe his booster is doing its job.

sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

do you have a picture of this tool, its exact function, and where i can get it from? How much did it cost you?

pooplooger

if the brake pedals getting hard then the brake booster isnt doing its job

pooplooger

"Now from what I've been reading lately, you're not supposed to be able to use a non-abs mc on an abs brake booster"

i dont believe you can use an abs brake booster with a non abs mc. the brake booster should have a dif release in it for abs to help build residual pressue.

night

#2 - 07JAG-SD40100


it apparently goes for $100+

we have one but i haven't used the damn thing in forever.


and while looking for a pic of it i found this. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/maste...djustment.html

kommon_sense

Agreed. Thats what I was saying. I think the difference between what you and I are saying is that he states that all 4 brakes lock up. He would not be able to lock up all 4 with a failed booster.

pooplooger

yeah his brakes might be locking up because hes using a non abs mc with an abs booster. theres a difference in valves

sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

See the only thing is that i dont want to change out the brake booster and end up putting one back in that does the exact same thing. The "nisin" sticker on it has the same numbers on both of them, and as the one on my abs car. Funny thing about it is, my buddy has a delsol with a brake booster from a gsr (del sol is non-abs) and his brakes work just fine. Does anyone have a picture with a abs and a non-abs booster side by side? Are they supposed to look any different on the outside or is it just on the inside?

89ssgti

you don't have the right brake booster for the master cylinder you are using.
The pushrod of the booster is longer in the abs car than the one in the non abs one.
It shows this clearly in the pic where you say that the master does not go flush with the booster without forcing it.
When you are tightening it down you are actually "pressing" the brakes at all time.

sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

Yeah thats what i figured..which is why i was asking if anyone had a picture of what the actual brake booster from an Integra RS looked like. If i knew what it looked like then i'd go to a salvage yard and find one (especially if they just have parts already taken off). I already bought one used that was supposed to be from an rs but apparently its not.

89ssgti

why don't you just leave the abs master cylinder?
Even if you don't have abs anymore it still gonna work.

sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

I didnt want to because A. i got this car without any brakes at all. B. the master cylinder on my spare car had gone to **** already. C. I had already purchased a non abs master cylinder with the non-abs lines. I knew the abs master cylinder would work and i debated on whether or not to buy another one or buy another booster, either way i would end up having to bleed the brakes again, only difference is, with the abs mc i would have to bend my lines in different directions and cut them and flare them again with bigger fittings. This is going to sound ghetto, but since the rod was too long i just measured it and cut off the excess with a dremel cut off wheel. Call it unsafe if you want, but my brakes work and feel just fine now.

89ssgti

I actually did the opposite.I installed a 1in master cylinder from an abs car on my non abes brake booster ans it was braking with the pedal 1in from the floor.
With a little bit of trial and error I made a spacer for the rod.

sweetfwdthunder

iTrader: (2)

Yeah that would work too, i thought about that as well but i just figured it was easier (and free) to cut the rod. I just slipped the mc off, and had a buddy push the brake pedal in while i cut the rod and rounded it off.

Mookspeed

Was this issue ever resolved ?