Alignment Specs - Help!
05-30-2017, 04:37 PM
#1
Alignment Specs - Help!
I got my EG6 aligned recently, and my steering is off-center to the right and I don't think some of those numbers are within spec tolerances. I'm not sure the guy did a good job, and some of the suspension components are new, so I need some help to rule out the possibility of a bad alignment. The suspension setup is all stock, with the stock 15" wheels and same spec tyres.
Here's the alignment report:
(Before adjustments -> After adjustments)
FRONT:
Caster
Left: 1º01' -> 1º02'
Right : 1º23' -> 1º24'
Camber
Left: -0º29' -> -0º28'
Right: -0º31-> -0º31'
Toe-in
Left: 0º26' -> 0º05'
Right: 0º38' -> 0º01'
Total: 0º12' -> 0º06'
REAR:
Camber
Left: -0º37' -> -0º37'
Right: -1º13' -> -1º13'
Toe-in
Left: 0º14' -> 0º14'
Right: -0º25' -> -0º25'
Total: -0º11' -> -0º11'
Traction Line Max Angle: -0º19'
SAI/KPI: Left 10º59', Right 11º28'
Included Angle: Left 10º31', Right 10º57'
Here's the alignment report:
(Before adjustments -> After adjustments)
FRONT:
Caster
Left: 1º01' -> 1º02'
Right : 1º23' -> 1º24'
Camber
Left: -0º29' -> -0º28'
Right: -0º31-> -0º31'
Toe-in
Left: 0º26' -> 0º05'
Right: 0º38' -> 0º01'
Total: 0º12' -> 0º06'
REAR:
Camber
Left: -0º37' -> -0º37'
Right: -1º13' -> -1º13'
Toe-in
Left: 0º14' -> 0º14'
Right: -0º25' -> -0º25'
Total: -0º11' -> -0º11'
Traction Line Max Angle: -0º19'
SAI/KPI: Left 10º59', Right 11º28'
Included Angle: Left 10º31', Right 10º57'
05-31-2017, 04:00 AM
#2
05-31-2017, 04:36 AM
#3
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
05-31-2017, 05:50 AM
#4
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Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
The whole alignment sucks.
The rear cross toe.
Rear cross camber.
etc.
How many of your components are adjustable?
The rear cross toe.
Rear cross camber.
etc.
How many of your components are adjustable?
05-31-2017, 07:31 AM
#5
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
My suspension is bone stock, so I guess only toe. I'll mod the rear suspension to further adjust camber if it's necessary. So the cross toe and cross camber need to be fixed, anything else that's equally as important? Also, would -1 degrees at the rear wheels be beneficial grip wise without also modifying the front or is it a bad idea? Thank you for the help!
05-31-2017, 09:09 AM
#6
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Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
See if you can find why 1 side is so far off in terms of rear camber. Was the car in an accident? Torn bushings?
You're saying the shocks/springs are stock also, I'm taking?
*generally* speaking, you'd want more front camber to improve cornering performance. 1 deg of rear camber isn't going to kill anything. I would just want to know WHY its so far off in case it reveals some underlying issue that needs attention.
You're saying the shocks/springs are stock also, I'm taking?
*generally* speaking, you'd want more front camber to improve cornering performance. 1 deg of rear camber isn't going to kill anything. I would just want to know WHY its so far off in case it reveals some underlying issue that needs attention.
05-31-2017, 09:29 AM
#7
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
See if you can find why 1 side is so far off in terms of rear camber. Was the car in an accident? Torn bushings?
You're saying the shocks/springs are stock also, I'm taking?
*generally* speaking, you'd want more front camber to improve cornering performance. 1 deg of rear camber isn't going to kill anything. I would just want to know WHY its so far off in case it reveals some underlying issue that needs attention.
You're saying the shocks/springs are stock also, I'm taking?
*generally* speaking, you'd want more front camber to improve cornering performance. 1 deg of rear camber isn't going to kill anything. I would just want to know WHY its so far off in case it reveals some underlying issue that needs attention.
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05-31-2017, 09:33 AM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
front toe should be zero.
and the reason the steering wheel is off is because of rear toe. one wheel is toed in, the other wheel is toed out. the rear end is crab walking.
like said above, something is wrong in the back. and he never adjusted anything in the rear either. it seems the ONLY thing he adjusted was front toe.
fix the rear camber issue first. then go back and get a FOUR wheel alignment, not just a front toe adjustment.
and the reason the steering wheel is off is because of rear toe. one wheel is toed in, the other wheel is toed out. the rear end is crab walking.
like said above, something is wrong in the back. and he never adjusted anything in the rear either. it seems the ONLY thing he adjusted was front toe.
fix the rear camber issue first. then go back and get a FOUR wheel alignment, not just a front toe adjustment.
05-31-2017, 12:17 PM
#9
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Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
Front toe is fine for the most part. I prefer a small amount (.05 deg or so) of front toe in. The fronts naturally toe out a tiny bit when you're driving.
06-01-2017, 03:30 PM
#10
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
According to a mechanic that used to own an Integra, worn trailing arm bushings can cause a steering wheel to change its center position shortly after an alignment.
06-01-2017, 09:59 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
that largely depends on the wheel setup being used, and can't really be stated as a general whole.
so can every other part in the entire suspension.
so can every other part in the entire suspension.
06-02-2017, 07:28 AM
#12
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
Are those measurments in degrees & minutes? Very weird looking.
If I convert decimal degrees to minutes....
- I think rear total toe "spec" is +09.6 minutes with a max of +19.2 minutes and a minimum of +04.8 minutes. (yours is -11 for toe-out WTF!!!)
- I think front total toe "spec" is 00 minutes with a variance of +/- 09.6 minutes (yours is +6...within spec)
If this is not minutes, then forget I said anything.
Your camber all around is minimal. Is your car lowered? I would suspect not. You can shim out the one rear side with an Ingalls shim kit. Cheap and effective. It can reduce camber up to 0.75* on one side. I think I paid about $10 or $15 on ebay.
If I convert decimal degrees to minutes....
- I think rear total toe "spec" is +09.6 minutes with a max of +19.2 minutes and a minimum of +04.8 minutes. (yours is -11 for toe-out WTF!!!)
- I think front total toe "spec" is 00 minutes with a variance of +/- 09.6 minutes (yours is +6...within spec)
If this is not minutes, then forget I said anything.
Your camber all around is minimal. Is your car lowered? I would suspect not. You can shim out the one rear side with an Ingalls shim kit. Cheap and effective. It can reduce camber up to 0.75* on one side. I think I paid about $10 or $15 on ebay.
06-04-2017, 01:11 AM
#13
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Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
It's 36' (= minutes, or 0.6 degrees) off, which is just normal for our cars according to received wisdom*. Also the more negative side is on the left which would be in line with driver position lean. OP should state whether the car leans or not.
No offence but your conversion seems weird
OP's figures are in degree-minutes. My old post on this:
*google search "uneven camber" on Honda-Tech
No offence but your conversion seems weird
OP's figures are in degree-minutes. My old post on this:Here are the specs and limits for a 96-00 Civic from my (EDM) books (car supplied manual and workshop manual) my EDM specs in bold EK 3/4d 2d:
spec [limits]
note angles are specified in degree-minutes (1°=60'), I added the degrees (what has been called 'degrees' here in this thread) for some values. I also added values in mm and inches. Toe-in(+), toe-out(-)
front:
camber:
0° [-1°,+1°] [-0°45', +0°45']
caster:
1°40' [0°40', 2°40']
toe:
+5' [+15', -5'] (minutes); +0.08° [+0.22°, -0.08] (degrees) [+20', -10'] [+0.30°, -0.15°]
+1mm [+3,-1]
+0.04inches [+0.12",-0.04"]
rear
camber:
-1° [-2°, 0°] [-1.45°, -0.55°]
toe:
+10' [+20', +5'] (minutes); +0.15° [+0.30°, +0.08°] (degrees)
+2mm [+4,+1]
+0.08inches [+0.16", +0.04"]
Everyone should be clear on what notation is used
So there are the following equalities (rounded):
0.04"(inches) = 0.08° (degrees) = 1mm = 0°05' (degree-minutes) (also written as 5')
As explained below these values differ somewhat (to be neglected) for different wheel sizes.
spec [limits]
note angles are specified in degree-minutes (1°=60'), I added the degrees (what has been called 'degrees' here in this thread) for some values. I also added values in mm and inches. Toe-in(+), toe-out(-)
front:
camber:
0° [-1°,+1°] [-0°45', +0°45']
caster:
1°40' [0°40', 2°40']
toe:
+5' [+15', -5'] (minutes); +0.08° [+0.22°, -0.08] (degrees) [+20', -10'] [+0.30°, -0.15°]
+1mm [+3,-1]
+0.04inches [+0.12",-0.04"]
rear
camber:
-1° [-2°, 0°] [-1.45°, -0.55°]
toe:
+10' [+20', +5'] (minutes); +0.15° [+0.30°, +0.08°] (degrees)
+2mm [+4,+1]
+0.08inches [+0.16", +0.04"]
Everyone should be clear on what notation is used
So there are the following equalities (rounded):
0.04"(inches) = 0.08° (degrees) = 1mm = 0°05' (degree-minutes) (also written as 5')
As explained below these values differ somewhat (to be neglected) for different wheel sizes.
*google search "uneven camber" on Honda-Tech
Last edited by kristo; 06-04-2017 at 01:27 AM.
06-04-2017, 10:23 AM
#14
Re: Alignment Specs - Help!
Spec front toe is 0.00 degrees +/- 0.16 degrees right (from memory)?
Spec rear toe is +0.16 degrees +0.16/-0.08 degrees right (from memory)?
According to google...
- 0.16 degrees converts to 9.6 minutes
- 0.32 degrees converts to 19.2 minutes
- 0.08 degrees converts to 4.8 minutes
https://www.google.com/search?q=0.16...hrome&ie=UTF-8
All you did was round to the nearest minute (and combine with other conversions).
Spec rear toe is +0.16 degrees +0.16/-0.08 degrees right (from memory)?
According to google...
- 0.16 degrees converts to 9.6 minutes
- 0.32 degrees converts to 19.2 minutes
- 0.08 degrees converts to 4.8 minutes
https://www.google.com/search?q=0.16...hrome&ie=UTF-8
All you did was round to the nearest minute (and combine with other conversions).
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