kcari

no, the problem started to happen after the alignment 2 weeks ago.
after my tie rod (stud) was fixed, the car drove fine, but I wanted to bring it in because i wanted to be safe and my friend works at the just tires. But after that alignment, the car felt very unstable and would wander at high speeds- plus the steering wheel was very loose. Then 2 (3) days ago i brought it back and the car feels more stable with a firmer steering wheel except in order to straight I have to angle the wheel to the left.

and my first mechanic did test drive it, im sure if something was off he would likely jump at the opportunity to work on my car. plus I was very willing.

jpciii

The only thing I see is that the rear toe could be dialed in better. The way it is now, it will cause a slight pull to the right, but it shouldn't be all that drastic. Your pull problem might be amplified by your tires and their position on the car (tires naturally induce some amount of 'pull')... does your shop have a wheel balancer that measures road-force?

srmofo

sorry Im lazy and Im not reading all the posts, but Tires can cause whats called a radial pull, its something to do with the way the belts are laid inside the tire. it doesnt matter if your tires look brand new, because I have seen this on brand new tires, its not often but it does happen. good news is its easy to check. Just cross rotate the 2 front tires, then drive it.....if nothing changes cross rotate the 2 rear tires....if nothing changes then you have ruled the tires out and I would start looking for a new shop, because either A) the tech is lazy or B) their machine hasnt been calibrated recently....the heads do get dropped from time to time.....Im really surprised the shop just said its not their problem and let you go without even trying to rotate the tires for you and rule that out, I would find a new shop because of that alone. There is no way that BS would fly at my shop.

boostatic

TOE DOES NOT CAUSE PULLING!!!..the biggest misconception in alignments..toe is the direction the tires are pointed..it causes tire wear..why does it cause that tire wear?? because the tires are being dragged..not rolling straight..if its outta spec..

jpciii

good point. front toe doesnt cause a pull, but rear toe does. I was pointing out that his rear toe is pointing off to the right. Rear toe determines thrust angle...

EDIT: Oops, I went back to my textbook... rear toe determines thrust angle, but an off-center thrust angle doesn't cause a pull (sorry 'bout that boostatic, you're absolutely right), it causes 'dogtracking' where the rear wheels don't follow directly behind the front wheels. A small amount of dogtracking is normally acceptable...

96Spec Ek

Have the front end checked out and "replace" not fix any broken or worn parts. Have the alignment checked once again. If you are a heavy individual I would ask if you could sit in the car while the alignment is being performed. After all adjustments are made and before the front tie rods are tightened recenter the wheel again then tighten the front tie rods. Test drive the car if it still pulls rotate the front wheels left to right and road test again. If it either goes straight or pulls or drifts the opposite way, you have a tire pull.

By the way you check for a pull by loosely holding the steering wheel and seeing if it drifts. If you are centering the steering wheel and experiencing a "drift" it is merely a off center steering wheel.

kcari

okay, so I went back, and he gave me .04 toe on both sides in the front.
but I still have like .21 toe on the driver rear and .10 toe in the passenger rear.
The car drives a lot better now and the steering wheel is very responsive. And the steering wheel is straight.
The roads here are rarely flat-they are slightly slanted right, so I'm not sure if its the roads or the car, but any pulling I get now is not that noticeable and definitely not as bad as before, so im just going to leave it.

the thing that still confuses me is that when I brought it back, my front readings were negative on one side and positive on the other side, even though only 3 days have passed. I think the machine or the rack sucks and is not accurate.

But it could also be my tires, as I started having problems after I rotated the rears to the front (for the first time in 12,000 miles). If it starts pulling a lot again, I will be sure to try switching passenger to driver side, but right now it feels good enough to leave alone.

if it is a tire pull, what do i do?

srmofo

if its neg. toe on one side and pos. toe on the other side that will cause your steering wheel to be off center, which could be mistaken for a "pull" if your centering the wheel and it goes one direction

kcari

why would it turn negative and positive in just 3 days?

and btw,
would .21 and .10 toe in the rears cause premature tire wear?

kcari

hey guys seems like my steering wheel is off centered again. When I hold it straight it pulls to the right. I am going to rotate the front wheels and see. Would the rear wheels matter in this situation? If my steering wheel is off centered, what do I do- and could it be that something broke for this to happen? could it be a power steering problem?

kcari

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTRWrsYC1kw

does this seem loose to you guys?

could my tie rod end be responsible for the looseness in the steering wheel? The driver side left was the stripped side and the car is pulling to the left.

huckaboo

adjust the tie rod or replace it.... also if u hit a bump wrong you could have messed up your lower control arm or your radius rod. even the strut could be off. i have the same problem the car pulls hard to the right and my steering wheel is off but i have been in a accident or 2 so there is a lot more wrong with my car.

alterdcreations

when your driving and moving the wheel like that is the car swaying left and right?

kcari

yes, im thinking about replacing the tie rod stud that was worn. perhaps the nut isnt all the way up or something.

and when i shake it hard like that the car is not very responsive, even though i have toe in.
when i had toe out, it was even less responsive, but that video was shot while the car was stopped. If i were to do that while driving, the car would probably swing side to side, especially since it is lowered, but how loose should the steering wheel be? i feel like sometimes when I turn left slowly the wheel sort of gets stuck and then i have to turn right a lot more just to go back to straight. does anyone know what i mean???

at higher speeds, the car also feels very unstable. i hit 80 mph today on relatively smooth freeway (for socal) and even though the steering wheel was slightly off, whenever i would adjust and set it, it would wander one way or the other.

prophecy7115

i dont get that concept?

toe is the angle at which the tires are directed relevant to zero (straight)

if you have one toe at zero and the other off wouldn't that cause pulling depending on which direction the other is off??

seems like common sense, cause at the end of the day the direction of the front tires is where the car is going to go.

corkss

Recently, my car was pulling, If I let go, I was in the ditch
I had to buy new tires!!!

Switch the front tires around and see if anything changes, mine pulled to the other side!

corkss

An alignment shop told me once, that there really isn't much to adjust the rear.. when you get an alignment on a civic you are basically changing the toe in the front, thats it?
I don't know if its true, any insight to help em out?

kcari

I will switch the tires on friday just to be safe, but I still think my steering feels loose.
btw if my passenger side tie rod is loose, would the car pull towards that direction and left turns would require more steering?

jpciii

Note: my previous post about rear toe was wrong and I edited it. Sorry for the misinformation.

corkss,
Rear toe can be adjusted on civics. On older civics, the adjustment is made where the compensator arm attaches to the body. On newer civics, rear toe adjustments are made where the 'knuckle' attaches to the lower control arm. I think there is an eccentric bolt there.

kcari,
Your rear toe is slightly off from centerline. This condition can cause your steering wheel to be off-center (and dogtracking). Your rear toe is also different from left to right (total toe is not zero), and this can cause tire wear. HOWERVER: your measurements, while not perfect, are close and are within specified tolerance as directed by Honda.

to all about pull caused by tires... It's true that the belts within the tire can cause some pulling. Of far greater influence is conicity. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=12

what do you do about tire pull? Find a shop that has one of these:
http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/ba...159T/index.htm
note: hit the 'NEXT' link at the bottom of the page for further reading

jpciii

you can "Find a GSP9700 near you!" here:

http://www.gsp9700.com/

kcari

okay turns out the unstable feeling was 2 cracked motor mounts and 2 blown lower control arm bushings. I had them replaced today and the car feels 100% more stable, especially on the freeway. The car still isnt going straight, but its definitely more stable. So I guess I need an alignment... and the prior alignments were thrown out of wack because of the blown bushings, even though the worthless alignment techs said everything "looked fine".

why do they blow? too low? bumpy streets?

my steering wheel is now vibrating when I hit 70 mph or above...is that normal to have to get a wheel balancing after LCA control arm bushing replacement?

delsolproblems

The bushings just wear out over time. Negative camber from lowering won't adversely affect the lower bushings. Nothing you posted would affect wheel balance unless you somehow knocked off a wheel weight. Check the steering wheel vibration on a very smooth road at the same speeds but with the car in neutral. This will eliminate the possiblity of drivetrain problems. If it still vibrates then mention it to the tech when you have the car re-aligned with the new bushings.

delsolproblems

....also, if you want to be sure the front wheels did not somehow become imbalanced, you can swap the front and rears to see if it fixes the vibration. Clean any crap off the wheels as well- chunks of dirt and whatnot can imbalance a wheel.

kcari

so replacing LCA bushings would not cause wheel to become imbalanced?
could it be that the wheels were balanced when the LCA bushings were already worn and now when its fixed... its imbalanced?

So ur saying harsh bumpy roads wouldnt cause the bushing to blow? My car is barely at 62,400 miles

kcari

so i rotated my tires and its not the problem.

so im guessing the alignment tomorrow (hopefully for the last time) will correct all the steering and off centered wheel problems.

my wheels are also balanced.

is it normal to feel slightly more vibration in the steering wheel at idle after new motor mounts ? before i didnt feel any vibration, but my engine would hella jump when i started it, now it starts beautifully.