if most people who modify their suspension do it for better performance, why do companies sell their spring sets with front bias when most honda owners run FF cars? it seems like the trend now these days are rear bias, why are companies like eibach, neuspeed....blah blah have it the old way? is it for safety?

 

All those type systems are intended for street use, so I would say that it is for safety. Imagine if the lawyers heard you were selling a street suspension that causes a front drive car to oversteer, then someone had an accident. All he has to do is say " I didn't know it would do that" and poof, you get to hand over a ton of money. Same basic reason very few cars come from the factory tail happy any more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by duh blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if most people who modify their suspension do it for better performance</TD></TR></TABLE>

eh? If we're talking about MOST people, I'm thinking that performance is not the primary goal. Imagine an aftermarket company that made springs/shocks that outperformed any common "street" setup, but once you installed it your car looked exactly the same as before. How well would that sell?

 

cuz most ppl have street cars.

and you want the front bias on a fwd street car(well most at any rate)

handling: might understeer but it'll feel more stable and planted, safer for the street

ride quality: jack up the rates in the rear of your car where theres no weight, and you will feel every bump because theres not enough weight to compress the springs in the back, thus they dont dampen the bumps and you feel them.

you can add springrate in the front cuz theres more weight there

 

For the mass market and general populace, you must be conservative with you products. These spring systems will definatley make the car handle better and stay flatter than stock but need to maintain some reasonable street ride quality, appeal to a braod market of potential customers and be controlable by the lowest common denominator driver who will not be the least bit prepared to respond properly to oversteer in case he gets some.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

eh? If we're talking about MOST people, I'm thinking that performance is not the primary goal. Imagine an aftermarket company that made springs/shocks that outperformed any common "street" setup, but once you installed it your car looked exactly the same as before. How well would that sell?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the mass market and general populace, you must be conservative with you products. These spring systems will definatley make the car handle better and stay flatter than stock but need to maintain some reasonable street ride quality, appeal to a braod market of potential customers and be controlable by the lowest common denominator driver who will not be the least bit prepared to respond properly to oversteer in case he gets some. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo Bingo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All he has to do is say " I didn't know it would do that" and poof, you get to hand over a ton of money. Same basic reason very few cars come from the factory tail happy any more.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo Bingo Bingo!!!

 

Also keep in mind that the in japan they run heavier front springs. They get more rotation through staggering tire sizes, alignment settings, offset, etc.

So the Japanese companies that offer springs/coil-overs may simple offer them that way, because that is how they are used to doing it.

 

is it possible to have the rear loose under throttle in a FF car? i know that with higher rear rates, you can get the rear to come around better off the gas or neutral, but with power applied, wouldnt it make it understeer again?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by duh blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is it possible to have the rear loose under throttle in a FF car? i know that with higher rear rates, you can get the rear to come around better off the gas or neutral, but with power applied, wouldnt it make it understeer again?</TD></TR></TABLE>

A loose FWD car can still be "controlled" with the throttle, changing the weight transfer to the front tires. Hitting the throttle puts more weight back there, increasing rear grip...so yeah.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by duh blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is it possible to have the rear loose under throttle in a FF car? i know that with higher rear rates, you can get the rear to come around better off the gas or neutral, but with power applied, wouldnt it make it understeer again?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure. My car routinely gets loose at the limit at auto-x. I'm not talking about drift, but the rear end will slide a smidge on a fast enough sweeper.

This is w/ OTS Koni yellows, Neuspeed springs and an ST Speedtech rear sway/tie.
In order to do it w/ just springs, you'd need some serious rake and some high rear rates (I'd think).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the Japanese companies that offer springs/coil-overs may simple offer them that way, because that is how they are used to doing it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup. If you want more "western" suspension settings, check out H&R springs. They're still front-stiff, but not nearly as much. Their springs for my Mk3 GTI VR6 definitely tipped the balance towards less understeer, with no other suspension changes.

I don't know if this applies to Hondas, but for the 240SX, Japanese companies Tein and RS*R also tend to be much less front-stiff than others. My 240SX will have RS*R Race springs which barely lower the car but increase the spring rate about 150% all the way around.