had a fairly trustworthy honda mech check my "new" car (1994 Civic Ex MT) because it had a strange grinding/whirling sound and since Im new to hondas, Im not used to what it should sound like. he pushed in the clutch and we would hear a bearing grind, he says its the gearbox - also mentioned the clutch feels weird and will also fail soon, that it was a good idea to change it since it saves double work.. suggests I do the rear engine gasket? he mentions a power something branch clutch as an option or a new stock one. mentioned that the hi pro one will also stress the hydraulics more than stock and might bring up new problems from the stress. He says my options as far as the gearbox would be one from a junker, but to find a be hard or rebuild mine, but would be lots of labor and down time. what you guys think, suggest and what should I see as the costs expense. I have almost no budget for this, I barely got the car as basic transporation, but looks like something I will have to address and save for.. any help helps.. thanks in advance.

 

well first off when did you hear the grinding/whirling noise? Thats not enough info for use to help you.

But actually if its grinding and its 5 speed i would say the trans might be going, due to bad driving from the previous owner. So thats a thought.

what the hell is a rear engine gasket? (im drunk right now so it might be something but to me right now that doesnt make sense.)

Try doing a tranny flush first then after that if you still have problems come here and say its still going on. Im thinking its a tranny probolem.

 

I only know the basics on car maintenance and a few of the terms.
So I'm not gonna be doing the work myself.
First test the mech that looked at the car did was push in the clutch, he asked me to listen, there was a slight grinding noise as he let it go.
There other whirring noise sounds similar to when we go in reverse, but it happens during acceleration on first and second gear. That he said was a bearing or a few of the bearings into the gearbox.
His main concern was my budget (none) and how the downtime would affect me. His suggestion on changing the clutch at the same is fair, since it will need changing anyways. His first suggestion is a Centerforce, but mentions that it might over stress the hydraulics and possibly leaks, not really knowing the condition they're currently in. The other is a stock EX, he says is stronger than other models, but not strong enough to his liking or one from an Integra, again its about the budget, he suggests new.
As far as the greabox I'm really steering towards rebuild, downtime doesnt really effect me and I would rather have something with a garrantee to work. Unless we can find a decent, reliable, reputable source on a used one.

Unfortunately I just blew what little monies I had on an Arospeed muffler, custom mendrel bent 2.25" from cat back and 3' Magna SS resonator ($328) kinda upset about the welding and funky "adaptor" Miami Muffler did, but I shoulda checked and made sure I was happy before paying. Also replaced the worn / torn leather seats with a set of cloth I got for ($100).

I want to use this car as reliable basic transportation, I used to own a Subaru 2.5RS, which I also tuned a little - So I would enjoy giving my Civic some toys as well. One step at a time...

 

I checked with a local repair shop, not sure they do much honda work, they did tell me that they would have to get the stock ex clutch from honda, they don't recommend using any aftermarket because they are not as reliable. that tells me that atleast they know something?

Told them what model civic, year and what I think I needed..
clutch and tranny.. they quoted me $450.00 for new ex clutch and rebuild my tranny, installation / labor - forgot to mention the rear main seal and ask about thier garrantee, because its actually the ex-husband of a co-worker and she asked for me.

What else should I ask or look for to make sure they know what they are doing as far as hondas go - I know we use regular oil instead of tranny fluid. They've been a tranny shop since the 60s and her ex been doing trannys for 20+ years..

 

Well, I was going to say buying a EX tranny from someone on the boards and having a local swap guy install it as a cheaper option...but the $450 they quoted you would probably end up being cheaper, assuming they don't find any other problems that need attention.

The guy sounds like he has plenty of experience, and assuming he's honost about your problems, I think you'll be best off just following his advice and letting him do the work. Really, $450 sounded suprisingly low to me for mechanic rates on disassembling, repairing, and reinstalling a tranny.

Just my $.02

Good luck with the repairs, hope everything goes smoothly.

 

He might know a little bit of general knowledge, but he's right away telling him to upgrade to stuff he doesnt need and then he told him an Integra tranny would work? Incorect. Don't know about this mech. My .02

 

Actually, he said an integra stock clutch would work, but even that is incorrect. Now that I've re-read the mechanics description of the problem, it seems that even a b-series swap might end up cheaper than the final bill once this guy cracks his tranny open.

I would take it to a dealership and let them check it out. Most of them will let a tech ride around in it and see if he can figure out *possible* causes for the problem and usually they don't charge unless you tell them to go ahead and do the work. Just make sure you let them know you aren't sure what's wrong and you just want them to do a quick look/listen/feel on it...or they will start taking things apart and charge you for it later.

 

first mech suggests I can use a type R gearbox? that works?

 

Ok, finally got a price for the gearbox from the first mechanic.. He says $500 for a good one...

too steep?

 

#1. Honda D series (which you have) do NOT mix with B series (Type R, Integra, etc). Since this is a stock car, just get an OEM clutch kit which should include a throw out bearing, pilot bearing, the pressure plate and the disk. The mechanic should also resurface/rebalance the flywheel when installing a new clutch - make sure to ask if this is being done.

#2. Replacing the rear main seal is a good idea since the tranny/flywheel will also be out.

#3. The tranny noise you describe needs to be indentified more clearly. In one instance, you make it seem like it could just be the throw out bearing which means a new/used tranny is NOT needed. The other instance you make it sound like the input shaft bearing needs to be replaced which means the tranny needs to come apart (the bearing is only $20, I've replaced it myself once before). If the tranny whirls with the clutch released, more than likely its the ISB (the noise will fade when you press in the clutch pedal, effectively taking the load off of that bearing).

$500 for a new/used tranny is robbery - you can get an entire Y8 swap for that much (and that includes the ECU, axles and all that jazz). Also, the 96-00 Civic trannies bolt onto your engine with no mods - so if you're truly on a tight budget, going for a stock tranny (Ex, Si) may cost you more than going with a Cx, Dx, Lx tranny. Sure you loose some 'scoot' by going to the longer gears - but you will get from A to B in due time.

 

Excellent reponses, thanks guys...

Same mechanic asks $125 for what parts of the clutch?
He mentioned the Disc, Pressure Plate, Pilot Bearing, Rear Seal, etc.. parts alone costing about $250..

Is he sourcing his parts too high?

thanks again

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EE_Chris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

#3. The tranny noise you describe needs to be indentified more clearly. In one instance, you make it seem like it could just be the throw out bearing which means a new/used tranny is NOT needed. The other instance you make it sound like the input shaft bearing needs to be replaced which means the tranny needs to come apart (the bearing is only $20, I've replaced it myself once before). If the tranny whirls with the clutch released, more than likely its the ISB (the noise will fade when you press in the clutch pedal, effectively taking the load off of that bearing).

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Two different bearing grind sounds, one is when I release the clutch pedal.
The other is during first and second, I get a whirring... grind.. I guess similar to the
sound Hondas make in reverse but a bit more grind.. if that makes sense.

 

$250 for an OEM clutch kit (pressure plate, clutch disk, throw out bearing, pilot bearing) and a rear main seal seem on point to me for a parts only price.

The sound you describe - input shaft bearing and possibly the bearing opposite its end, are going south. Initially when I had the same sounds, everybody said ISB, which it was, but another one was also WAY worse off. I'll try to snap a pic as I still have the bearing around here somewhere. Its only gonna get worse from here.

 

You'll see 2 of the ***** are chewed to hell...

 

Let me be real honest with you.

Your car isn't in any danger of blowing up or grenading the transmission. The sound you hear is either a pilot or throwout bearing on its way out, but you can literally drive on that for tens of thousands of miles before it becomes a serious problem.

My advice? Tell the mechanic (who obviously knows nothing about Hondas) to **** off and just drive your car. Until it breaks enough to require the repairs this douchebag is quoting you, just drive the **** out of it. It's basic transportation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My advice? Tell the mechanic (who obviously knows nothing about Hondas) to **** off and just drive your car. Until it breaks enough to require the repairs this douchebag is quoting you, just drive the **** out of it. It's basic transportation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I definately agree about finding another mechanic. I'd get as far away from him as possible. He obviously is trying to get you with the "Type R" stuff because you lack the car knowledge necessary to tell him that it will or won't work, or doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground.

 

order your clutch from clutchcityonline.com for your car, only bout $100 bucks with throwout bearing. go for the exedy stock replacement. Same quality as stock, if not better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your car isn't in any danger of blowing up or grenading the transmission. The sound you hear is either a pilot or throwout bearing on its way out, but you can literally drive on that for tens of thousands of miles before it becomes a serious problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I should have stated the same - when I initially heard the whirring, then gradual grinding, all the way to it sounding like the tranny was just going to explode - I probably put a good 20k before it got unbearable.

 

ok checked them out... friend still pushing using the first mechanic, but more and more I talk to him the less I feel comfortable with him. friend mentions that if anything, I should atleast go with honda original bearings..
Should I worry about that, how reliable would you guys say Exedy standard clutch parts are? Would I be any better off spending the extra $200 on original honda clutch parts ( I prefer not to spend anything more than I have to ) but I dont want to have to get the work re-done (spend more on labor) because something didn't hold up just because I spent less on the parts the first time.

anyone have any recommendations as to who to use here in Miami, Florida?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clockcycle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok checked them out... friend still pushing using the first mechanic, but more and more I talk to him the less I feel comfortable with him. friend mentions that if anything, I should atleast go with honda original bearings..
Should I worry about that, how reliable would you guys say Exedy standard clutch parts are? Would I be any better off spending the extra $200 on original honda clutch parts ( I prefer not to spend anything more than I have to ) but I dont want to have to get the work re-done (spend more on labor) because something didn't hold up just because I spent less on the parts the first time.

anyone have any recommendations as to who to use here in Miami, Florida?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exedy is made by Daikin Clutch and Daikin clutch makes the OEM Honda stuff. It's basically the same stuff, just in a different box.

 

I get a whirring/grinding sound when I let go of the clutch pedal and it goes away when I step on it.

I get a second grinding sound at higher rpm, just before shifting during 1st and 2nd gear.. I think, I can't pinpoint this one.. It might make this sound all the time, just gets louder or more audible once at higher rpm.

I also have a *slight* problem getting into 3rd and 5th, if I shift "dirty" or quickly it seems to crunch in, especially 5th. If I slow it down and take my time or hold in the clutch pedal longer as I ease it into 3rd it goes in smooth, 5th almost always crunches or clunks in some way reguardless, just less so when I'm gentle..

 

have some local Honda-Tech member on this board check it for you.
I would if you're in my town.

I think the mechanic you bring the car to know nothing about Honda or any other japanese imports. You should keep away from him or you may risk getting rapped!!

 

I drained and filled up with some Penzoil Syncromesh... nice feel, all gears go in smoothly now even under stress, except 5th.. still slightest a bit crunchy...

this didnt fix, nor was I expecting it to, the bearing noises, but it did help changing gears.


Modified by clockcycle at 5:16 AM 9/19/2004

 

Just buy a used d series tranny. It will be cheaper. And buy a new clutch for $120. shouldn't be more then $350 total. You can do it yourself, just don't hurry yourself and read alot about what you are about to do.

 

replace the throw out bearing and go from their. if it still feels like **** get a clutch. i doubt you will need a main seal unless you dripping oil from between the bellhousing and the block