Mike,

I read your post regarding removing the ITR ABS system and replace it with some other integra parts. I couldn't find the post in the search. Can you please tell me the things and stock parts that involved for removing the ABS system?

thanks

 

citanest - are you trying to save weight? or, is it just for the "feel" of it? I highly doubt that non-ABS really stops any shorter than ABS brake system. 116 feet for ITR w/ ABS is pretty damn short in stock configuration. I apologize for a semi-off topic, but I really don't see any gain by going w/ non-ABS setup.

 

Everyone agrees that Abs are key for a strong core. I say go on a diet and beef up the abs.

 

I hope MikeK can help you here because I've seen an ITR without the ABS. It's not pretty.

I'll start at the begining. See in the GTP races here in Australia, they are allowed to remove the ABS. Nathan did it.... because like most us on this board, The ABS is in your head and brake pedal. Anyway the fronts were locking-up before the rears even started to work. You'll probably need a bias switch so you can adjust the braking from front to rear. However he isn't allowed a Bias switch and has to use the standard master cylinder (Class rules). So he put the ABS back on.

Nathan Thomas - Drives the White ITR GTP. The only ITR going around for the last couple of rounds. 2 Big Stacks at Queensland Raceway took care of the other 2 ITR's. Both writen-off ( that's the last I heard of 'em) One had the whole left hand corner removed, the other was shorten by about 3 feet, You guessed-it, In the front.....
Later.

 

Yes mike . . .

Share with us the great pains you took to remove yoru ABS . . . heh heh

;-)

You send my wiper kit yet . . . ??


Jeff

 

I agree, but I tried one without ABS and loved the way it feels. I don't think I can get a shorter stopping distance at the beginning. However, a well trained leg is always better than what the machine can do for you. In the long run, you will run faster. Remember, ABS wasn't popular until the last 5-10 years. It's for people who don't know how to drive. Once you get used to it, you will never want an ABS'ed car.

 

IMHO, today's ABS is just as good, if not better than your "trained leg". I guess I unfortunately belong in the "people who don't know how to drive" category, as you put it. I hope you get trained well, 'cuz one mistake in your training will mess up you and your car pretty bad. G'luck.

 

citanest> However, a well trained leg is always better than what the machine can do for you.

It is not physically possible for a human to modulate the brakes as quickly as an ABS system can.

citanest> Remember, ABS wasn't popular until the last 5-10 years.

Probably because they had not perfected the technology at the price point necessary to install it on passenger cars.

I too am ambivalent about ABS, but I would never claim to be able to stop better than it could.

 

I appologize. I am not flaming anyone here. I rely on the ABS too, but I do believe that you can run faster without the ABS system. I really don't mean to say anyone here don't know how to drive when using ABS. Indeed, I really mean aggressive driver who DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE, they activate their ABS ALL THE TIME especially in the winter.

norice, I kind of agree with you. However, ABS is built for safety reason, not for people to get better track time. For instance, LSD wasn't available 10 years ago either, and they are now widely used to incorporate onto cars. The difference is they are built to give you better traction when corning, unlike the ABS, which is there purely for safety reasons. If you can train your leg to do full braking without locking up the wheels all the time, I don't see what the ABS can do that you can't do.


[Modified by citanest, 9:55 AM 12/3/2001]

 

it takes a while to learn threshold braking without ABS to be able to run faster lap times than if you had it engaged

it is also a totally different situation on the street than on a track when you involve ABS due to brake temperature, road conditions, etc.
do not remove your ABS for running track days just remove the fuse then put it back in for street use
wait until someone screws up in front of you on the street or the track then you will wish you had ABS if you are still learning race/street driving skills

 

citanest> norice, I kind of agree with you. However, ABS is built for safety reason, not for people to get better track time.

It is worth noting that many insurance companies have stopped offering an insurance discount for ABS because they have discovered that the touted safety benefits are not there. People with ABS equipped cars are having just as many accidents as those without ABS. The types of accidents have changed however - there are less rear-end collissions by ABS-equipped cars but more cars are leaving the road (probably because people are steering themselves out of a collision and into a tree by the side of the road, whereas without ABS they could not steer at all).

 

ABS can do things that NO human driver can do, particularly, modulate a SINGLE CORNER when conditions require. You'd need four brake pedals and a few more legs to achieve that feat. F1 cars now have ABS, the FIA was trying to keep it out, but teams wouldn't have been sneaking it in if it weren't worth the trouble. Some cars have pretty lame ABS, the type R has a fantastic ABS controller compared to some other stuff i've driven. At my last stint at Nelson Ledges, I came over a small rise a little warm before a left hander, and was on the brake a little harder than in previous laps...the nature of the rise could have really upset the car, but i felt the ABS working the left side and everything was hunky dory in preparation for the next corner. It would not have been as pretty in a non ABS car i don't think. ABS = Worth it's weight in aluminum & steel.


EDIT: As for a fantastic human driver having more potential than ABS, Road & Track did a series of tests with a mercedes, testing the ABS, the professional driver's best modulation, and no ABS full lockup, on a variety of surfaces (dry pavement, wet, sand, gravel, ice). The ABS was better than the best driver in every condition except ice, where full lockup did the trick oddly enough.
Pilots have had to adjust to the fact that for their planes to have superior handling, they can't be flown without the computers that keep them stable....


[Modified by Aleph, 1:54 PM 12/3/2001]