EG aluminum rad enough?
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
From: up north
EG aluminum rad enough?
I have a crx with a soon to be turboed b16. I switched to a half sized first gen civic rad to make room for the turbo but at lapping days I can only go about 4 laps before the temp needle is in the red.
So would a stock del sol dual core rad be enough cooling or would I need an aluminum one?
Or is everyone using full size rads?
So would a stock del sol dual core rad be enough cooling or would I need an aluminum one?
Or is everyone using full size rads?
New User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,960
Likes: 1
From: I hate, you
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (model x)
If you are over-heating now wait until that turbo is on the car.
I have always run the STOCK GSR radiator on my B18C1 and have NEVER had a heat issue on track either in the GSR or the hatch. I also do not have an AC condensor or intercooler blocking air going to the radiator.
I have always run the STOCK GSR radiator on my B18C1 and have NEVER had a heat issue on track either in the GSR or the hatch. I also do not have an AC condensor or intercooler blocking air going to the radiator.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: ca, usa
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (Evil Drew M)
i am using the stock radiator on my c5 and now that i am somewhat fast around a track and can push my car closer to its limits i am finnaly noticing the needle go up just ever so slightly but with the heater on it seems to be ok. yes its time for me to upgrade to something better.
The turbo will make everything even hotter for you. my buddy running a single cam turbo setup has an aluminum half size radiator (fluidyne) and he does not have any issues at all so i would say that you would be ok with the same type of setup.
The turbo will make everything even hotter for you. my buddy running a single cam turbo setup has an aluminum half size radiator (fluidyne) and he does not have any issues at all so i would say that you would be ok with the same type of setup.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
From: up north
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (EG TYPE-R)
ya I know the turbo is only gonna make my situation worse and I know a full size rad would cure my problems but that's not what I'm wondering.
Does your buddy with the single cam turbo do any track events other than draggin?
Does your buddy with the single cam turbo do any track events other than draggin?
New User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,960
Likes: 1
From: I hate, you
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (model x)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by model x »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does your buddy with the single cam turbo do any track events other than draggin?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are gonna have a hard time finding people who track boosted Hondas. Those that do learn very early on that track + boosted Honda are a bad combo and they revert back to all-motor.
PM B18CXr. He used to have a boosted C5 hatch (which was eventually converted back to NA).
You are gonna have a hard time finding people who track boosted Hondas. Those that do learn very early on that track + boosted Honda are a bad combo and they revert back to all-motor.
PM B18CXr. He used to have a boosted C5 hatch (which was eventually converted back to NA).
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 3
From: Quebec, Canada
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (Evil Drew M)
No overheating from a b18b non vtec motor here after 24 intense laps with the dual core del sol rad in a hatch. that's without the heater and around 27-30 celsius temp outside.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
Likes: 0
From: cali
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (STN_Pat)
i survived a damn hot day ( upper 90's close to 100) out on thunderhill, with a del sol dual core rad. near the end of the day i felt i was really really pushing the car, and the needel stayed planted, didn't move an inch. now there was a fellow member out there with a c5 and a single core half rad didn't make it and kept on having to turn his heater on
Trending Topics
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 0
From: Santa Barbara, California, usa
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (model x)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by model x »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya I know the turbo is only gonna make my situation worse and I know a full size rad would cure my problems but that's not what I'm wondering.
Does your buddy with the single cam turbo do any track events other than draggin?</TD></TR></TABLE>
IM the buddy.... i do track events... going straight is fun... but turning is way bettter...
ok.. so if your having overheating issues theres something else going on other than the radiator being the size it is...
honda designed the radiators for the needs of the motor, and yes we are modifying these motors and creating more stress on them, causeing more heat and so on, buuut overall it should be able to handle the heat, its still the same principle.... heated water IN, cooler water out.... no matter what the size... its not the fact that you are pumping more water threw the system now cause its modified... and the fact that the thermostat opens at about 180 means that the temps should be somewhere around there most of the time if all the cooling systems are working correctly.... im not saying this is the defining judgement... but i have a fluidyne halfcore civic radiator... its working fine for right now... if i wanted to get crazy i would get the integra dual core.... lots of variables cause overheating...radiator old and clogged/stuck thermostat/failing waterpump, make sure everything is working correctly..... if your driving your car and its overheating something is going on cause since the air is moving threw the radiator it should be transfering the heat and cooling the water flowing threw it... most of the time cars over heat when stopped cause of the lack of airflow....
to be simple... you should be fine with the setup you have, if your not looking for giant numbers, which you shouldnt be for a track(road racing) car. if you still have issues and want to be safe get the aluminum one.... but that wont fix problems if something else is going on.
and to the comment that poeple cant track turbo hondas.... thats the turbo hondas that COME from drag... with giant t3o4e turbos and spool suddenly at 5 grand and jump the power too drastically...this is the experience that i have had, turbo hondas can be great track cars if they are setup correctly
you build a nice system with a nice size turbo that wont run out of breath but doesnt take forever to spool, and it will produce power and be just as trackable as an allmotor car, but with more power....
most turbo hondas are still simple kits of big turbos and big intercoolers... power is the goal, and alot of power is the goal... slowly but surely change is begining, people are realizing that setups designed right can be very fast without sacrificing driveability
Does your buddy with the single cam turbo do any track events other than draggin?</TD></TR></TABLE>
IM the buddy.... i do track events... going straight is fun... but turning is way bettter...
ok.. so if your having overheating issues theres something else going on other than the radiator being the size it is...
honda designed the radiators for the needs of the motor, and yes we are modifying these motors and creating more stress on them, causeing more heat and so on, buuut overall it should be able to handle the heat, its still the same principle.... heated water IN, cooler water out.... no matter what the size... its not the fact that you are pumping more water threw the system now cause its modified... and the fact that the thermostat opens at about 180 means that the temps should be somewhere around there most of the time if all the cooling systems are working correctly.... im not saying this is the defining judgement... but i have a fluidyne halfcore civic radiator... its working fine for right now... if i wanted to get crazy i would get the integra dual core.... lots of variables cause overheating...radiator old and clogged/stuck thermostat/failing waterpump, make sure everything is working correctly..... if your driving your car and its overheating something is going on cause since the air is moving threw the radiator it should be transfering the heat and cooling the water flowing threw it... most of the time cars over heat when stopped cause of the lack of airflow....
to be simple... you should be fine with the setup you have, if your not looking for giant numbers, which you shouldnt be for a track(road racing) car. if you still have issues and want to be safe get the aluminum one.... but that wont fix problems if something else is going on.
and to the comment that poeple cant track turbo hondas.... thats the turbo hondas that COME from drag... with giant t3o4e turbos and spool suddenly at 5 grand and jump the power too drastically...this is the experience that i have had, turbo hondas can be great track cars if they are setup correctly
you build a nice system with a nice size turbo that wont run out of breath but doesnt take forever to spool, and it will produce power and be just as trackable as an allmotor car, but with more power....
most turbo hondas are still simple kits of big turbos and big intercoolers... power is the goal, and alot of power is the goal... slowly but surely change is begining, people are realizing that setups designed right can be very fast without sacrificing driveability
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (pornstarSR)
I couldn't agree more. I am running a turbo single-cam with a small (t-25/ soon to be gt-22) turbo at 6.5-7 psi, a large FMIC, a fluidyne 92+ rad 170* T-stat, samco hoses, a flex-a-lite slim fan, and an adjustable fan switch. I don't have any cooling problems at all. my car was purpose built to be a street/track day car.
however if I got a daily driver I'd seriously consider (and probably end up) taking out the turbo and going NA B-series. I can definitely see the advantage in a track only setup.
however if I got a daily driver I'd seriously consider (and probably end up) taking out the turbo and going NA B-series. I can definitely see the advantage in a track only setup.
New User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,960
Likes: 1
From: I hate, you
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (pornstarSR)
My comments weren't necessarily directed at the performance aspects of a boosted Honda on track. Instead I am sort of hinting at the logistical and reliability issues associated.
Sure - you are going to sit here and tell me that you have never had any issues with your car and that is fine. You are ONE person. I can personally rattle off the names of 6 or 7 people who HAD boost and got rid of it in favor of a NA setup for track use.
The bottom line is that when doing HPDE style track events I personally feel that power is the LAST thing that one should worry about. It isn't a race - it is a learning environment. IMO the order of priorities for success at the HPDE level should be:
1. Instruction
2. Driving Technique
3. Vehicle Reliability
4. Tires
5. Suspension
6. Power
Not only is boost GENERALLY a liability on a non-factory boosted car but it also adds logistical issues SUCH AS heat problems. If someone is looking to get into HPDE with the hope of racing someday I always tell them to stay away from boost because often times the boost adds reliability issues, increases the overall learning curve and, it will have to be removed before the car can be set up for most NASA and ALL SCCA classes.
Sure - you are going to sit here and tell me that you have never had any issues with your car and that is fine. You are ONE person. I can personally rattle off the names of 6 or 7 people who HAD boost and got rid of it in favor of a NA setup for track use.
The bottom line is that when doing HPDE style track events I personally feel that power is the LAST thing that one should worry about. It isn't a race - it is a learning environment. IMO the order of priorities for success at the HPDE level should be:
1. Instruction
2. Driving Technique
3. Vehicle Reliability
4. Tires
5. Suspension
6. Power
Not only is boost GENERALLY a liability on a non-factory boosted car but it also adds logistical issues SUCH AS heat problems. If someone is looking to get into HPDE with the hope of racing someday I always tell them to stay away from boost because often times the boost adds reliability issues, increases the overall learning curve and, it will have to be removed before the car can be set up for most NASA and ALL SCCA classes.
New User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,960
Likes: 1
From: I hate, you
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I instructed a guy in a 3rd Gen RX7 this weekend.
b00st ownz... it was so nice
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And that was FACTORY boost
b00st ownz... it was so nice
</TD></TR></TABLE>And that was FACTORY boost
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
From: up north
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (.RJ)
I won't be surprised if I'm not happy with the performance of my car with boost on the track. I'll be using a T3 .60/.63 AR which isn't too big but if I don't like it I'll try a smaller turbo and if I don't like that I'll go NA. But I have to try boost 
I really can't see anything other than the 1978 radiator being too small for the b16.
Its not clogged, the thermostat is new, the fan works perfectly, and for just driving around town its pretty much alright.
I'm gonna try and get my hands on a del sol dual core rad and see how that goes; it sounds like it should be ok from what slammed_93_hatch had to say.
I really can't see anything other than the 1978 radiator being too small for the b16.
Its not clogged, the thermostat is new, the fan works perfectly, and for just driving around town its pretty much alright.
I'm gonna try and get my hands on a del sol dual core rad and see how that goes; it sounds like it should be ok from what slammed_93_hatch had to say.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 30,826
Likes: 0
From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (model x)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by model x »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and for just driving around town its pretty much alright</TD></TR></TABLE>
You think driving around town requires as much temperature management as a 30 minute session on track in the summertime?
This is just the surface... tuning and knock/detonation is going to be another big problem.
You think driving around town requires as much temperature management as a 30 minute session on track in the summertime?
This is just the surface... tuning and knock/detonation is going to be another big problem.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now there was a fellow member out there with a c5 and a single core half rad didn't make it and kept on having to turn his heater on</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, me
full size teg radiator goes on soon.
yup, me
full size teg radiator goes on soon.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
Likes: 0
From: cali
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (96dxB16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96dxB16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yup, me
full size teg radiator goes on soon.</TD></TR></TABLE>
are you going to the HPDE event at infenion?
i got alil something that might give your car a run for its money.
haha with all this talk of power not being anything i just made a big investment in the power department, but i wouldn't call it crazy or anything.
yup, me
full size teg radiator goes on soon.</TD></TR></TABLE>
are you going to the HPDE event at infenion?
i got alil something that might give your car a run for its money.
haha with all this talk of power not being anything i just made a big investment in the power department, but i wouldn't call it crazy or anything.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (slammed_93_hatch)
on the 22nd? yes i plan on being there. before that i need to get this radiator put in (need to ghetto fab the lower mounts). i'd also like to get retuned and corner balanced/aligned.
will you be in group3 already?
what did you get? i'm interested
will you be in group3 already?
what did you get? i'm interested
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
Likes: 0
From: cali
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (96dxB16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96dxB16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on the 22nd? yes i plan on being there. before that i need to get this radiator put in (need to ghetto fab the lower mounts). i'd also like to get retuned and corner balanced/aligned.
will you be in group3 already?
what did you get? i'm interested</TD></TR></TABLE>
naw the instructer said i could go to group 3 if i wanted to but she thought it would be best for me to stay in group 2 for a few more events. maybe you should drop down to groupd 2 for one run????
will you be in group3 already?
what did you get? i'm interested
</TD></TR></TABLE>naw the instructer said i could go to group 3 if i wanted to but she thought it would be best for me to stay in group 2 for a few more events. maybe you should drop down to groupd 2 for one run????
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
naw the instructer said i could go to group 3 if i wanted to but she thought it would be best for me to stay in group 2 for a few more events. maybe you should drop down to groupd 2 for one run???? </TD></TR></TABLE>
ya, do a few in group 2, then you will realize they're too slow i'll stay in 3 for now thanks
naw the instructer said i could go to group 3 if i wanted to but she thought it would be best for me to stay in group 2 for a few more events. maybe you should drop down to groupd 2 for one run????
</TD></TR></TABLE>ya, do a few in group 2, then you will realize they're too slow
i'll stay in 3 for now thanks
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
From: up north
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You think driving around town requires as much temperature management as a 30 minute session on track in the summertime?
This is just the surface... tuning and knock/detonation is going to be another big problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, I was saying that it was ok around town so its probably just too small and not a clogged rad or stuck thermostat that is causing my problems. I obviously know that my cooling setup isn't cutting it if I'm asking the original question.
You think driving around town requires as much temperature management as a 30 minute session on track in the summertime?
This is just the surface... tuning and knock/detonation is going to be another big problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, I was saying that it was ok around town so its probably just too small and not a clogged rad or stuck thermostat that is causing my problems. I obviously know that my cooling setup isn't cutting it if I'm asking the original question.
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 0
From: Santa Barbara, California, usa
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (Evil Drew M)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My comments weren't necessarily directed at the performance aspects of a boosted Honda on track. Instead I am sort of hinting at the logistical and reliability issues associated.
Sure - you are going to sit here and tell me that you have never had any issues with your car and that is fine. You are ONE person. I can personally rattle off the names of 6 or 7 people who HAD boost and got rid of it in favor of a NA setup for track use.
The bottom line is that when doing HPDE style track events I personally feel that power is the LAST thing that one should worry about. It isn't a race - it is a learning environment. IMO the order of priorities for success at the HPDE level should be:
1. Instruction
2. Driving Technique
3. Vehicle Reliability
4. Tires
5. Suspension
6. Power
Not only is boost GENERALLY a liability on a non-factory boosted car but it also adds logistical issues SUCH AS heat problems. If someone is looking to get into HPDE with the hope of racing someday I always tell them to stay away from boost because often times the boost adds reliability issues, increases the overall learning curve and, it will have to be removed before the car can be set up for most NASA and ALL SCCA classes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is all true... each setup is different... like you said, for learning and grassroots racing. turbo on a non-factory turbo car is an issue...a pretty big one
i was just making a comment on the fact that sometimes boosted hondas are just shunned because of boost saying they wont be good track cars.
all in all in a learning style event... more power isnt what you need...
smooth and consistant
im not second guessing your knowlege of people that have swapped back...i know it happens...
run the setup thats best for you
Sure - you are going to sit here and tell me that you have never had any issues with your car and that is fine. You are ONE person. I can personally rattle off the names of 6 or 7 people who HAD boost and got rid of it in favor of a NA setup for track use.
The bottom line is that when doing HPDE style track events I personally feel that power is the LAST thing that one should worry about. It isn't a race - it is a learning environment. IMO the order of priorities for success at the HPDE level should be:
1. Instruction
2. Driving Technique
3. Vehicle Reliability
4. Tires
5. Suspension
6. Power
Not only is boost GENERALLY a liability on a non-factory boosted car but it also adds logistical issues SUCH AS heat problems. If someone is looking to get into HPDE with the hope of racing someday I always tell them to stay away from boost because often times the boost adds reliability issues, increases the overall learning curve and, it will have to be removed before the car can be set up for most NASA and ALL SCCA classes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is all true... each setup is different... like you said, for learning and grassroots racing. turbo on a non-factory turbo car is an issue...a pretty big one
i was just making a comment on the fact that sometimes boosted hondas are just shunned because of boost saying they wont be good track cars.
all in all in a learning style event... more power isnt what you need...
smooth and consistant
im not second guessing your knowlege of people that have swapped back...i know it happens...
run the setup thats best for you
Re: EG aluminum rad enough? (pornstarSR)
I would never build a car I plan on racing competitively with boost. however for a car whose sole purpose is to be a quick, nimble street driver, and do autoX and HPDE once in a while, as long as you are tuned well and have a sufficiently built motor, decently sized turbo, and a good cooling system, you should be ok.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
B_1_8_hatch
Forced Induction
1
Aug 3, 2003 01:06 PM