anybody ever put together a b18c1 block with a b16a head? if so how hard was it to do. what do u suggest?

 

It's called a "poor man's type R." and its a pretty common setup. It's a straight bolt on job, and I suggest using a thinner head gasket like a Spoon or Mugen to raise the compression ratio of the engine. The P72 A0 pistons found in the B18C1 have no dome and only make 10.0:1 compression with a P72 B18C1 head. When you change to a PR3 B16A head, compression will drop .2-.3 because of a larger combustion chamber , making it about 9.8:1. Try a search for more info.

 

so how much more power are u getting out of it with a lower compession.?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sdsviet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so how much more power are u getting out of it with a lower compession.? </TD></TR></TABLE>


not 100% sure on that..But a friend of mind did that w/ jdm r pistons, a ton of skunk2 **** in the head (stage 2 cams, springs, um vavles maybe?) but he put down like 197.7hp....which I think is pretty damn good..

he put it into a 95 ex coupe and went like 15.2...... he cant drive for his life

 

yeah well a stock b16 head on a stock gs-r bottom end will be only a slight bit slower then a stock gs-r. maybe say 165 FHP vs 170 for the gs-r.. a b17a is 1.7L and has 9.6 compression ratio.. uses the same IM, cams, and head.. and gets 160 FHP.. so its somewhere inbetween.

but then again you have to calculate for the intake manifold differences, the difference in head port volume which is bigger on the gs-r head compared with the b16 head, and also cam size. therefore, using a pr3 head, pr3 cams, and pr3 intake manifold.. which all flow less then a gs-r head and cams, and of course the dual runner IM give more low end... you def. will be slower then a stock gs-r, by how much i dunno.. but its something else to look into if you wanna be really into details.. of course i'm talking stock vs stock everything

if i were you and you want to do the poor mans ITR setup.. i'd spring for some new cams, at least gs-r size.. if you want to do the "ITR" in the name "poor mans ITR"... go with the ITR intake manifold, ITR cams, valvetrain, and ITR pistons for a perfect fit. redo your gaskets, bearings and seals to bring your motor back to zero miles, and maybe if you want to raise the comp even more then spring for a spoon/mugen headgasket or have the shop doign your labor to make one out of the stock gasket for you. dont forget to get an ecu with a higher rev limit. you shoudl be happy with that setup..

don't forget you do not have the close gear tranny, ported head, and other little bling ish the ITR normally comes with. so odn't expect to out run one. but at least you can say.. i have a poormans ITR!!!

 

I thought the B16A's head flowed better than a B18C1s?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VashTheStampede &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought the B16A's head flowed better than a B18C1s?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This topic has been argued a million times. I think someone actually did a dyno on it but Im not sure.

Wouldnt you think the "poor mans type R" would be better then a GSR if your changing heads? Therefore the pr3 is a better head!

 

To be honest... I wouldn't do it anyway. At least we know the Intake Mani design is better.

 

Instead of waisting time and money on buying another head and swapping it on, just invest in a better Intake manifold for the gsr and throw in some more agressive cams, such as the Type R cams. I gurantee you will see more of a gain by doing that then with a stock b16 head.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmjerk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This topic has been argued a million times. I think someone actually did a dyno on it but Im not sure.

Wouldnt you think the "poor mans type R" would be better then a GSR if your changing heads? Therefore the pr3 is a better head!</TD></TR></TABLE>


no.. the main reason people used to do that before was because they had a gs-r bottom end, and a cheap *** b16.. and started putting **** together and it was cheap. also we all "thought" the pr3 was a better head, and also because the ITR IM bolted straight up to to pr3 head.. therefore.. it must be better right?? thats what we mostly thought back in 96-99 at least, and many people still do.. i mean, of course a b16 revs high.. an ITR revs high.. what do they have in common?? the same pr3 head!!! right?? whala!!! easy.. more HP right there!!!!

thats not the entire story though. the pr3 head on an ITR is ported.. why? becuase it needs help flowing around the valves and in stock form.. it doesn't have the flow volume to support a high rpm 1.8L motor with lower rod ratio/ faster engine speeds. does that make sense?

the arguments:
a gs-r head stock has the capacity to out flow a stock pr3 head at high rpms on a 1.8L motor with the gs-r 1.58 rod ratio and piston speeds.. the b16 obviously has less air requirements given the slower piston speeds (1.75 RR), and smaller 1600cc.. therefore a smaller port area gives more velocity in and out of the ports and helps it produce better all around power. this means.. on a bigger motor which has faster piston speeds and exhales much more exhaust then a b16 at the same rpm, it will begin to suffocate at higher rpms when using the same head.
of course if you port it out, like they did on an ITR, then you'll be better off. if not outflowing the p72 stock head.

another argument for the p72 gs-r head is the combustion chamber which offers a more efficient burn then the b16 head which is round vs. square. and offers higher compression. and more resistance to detonation

also, its debated on that the intake port angles on the gs-r head are steeper which in turn brings the air in faster and helps create the right mixture based on some complicated fluid dynamics explanations i can't describe

so, anyways, what it comes down to besides all this mumbo jumbo is that even though the pr3 head given the right sort of massaging may flow better, there are other reasons to use the p72 head. supposedly this gives great performance results not found on the dyno or a flow bench. take it for what you will, but if you're talking basic setups.. like a pr3 head on a gs-r block.. or either head mildly ported running 10-11.5 CR.. the diference are prolly minimal. but these are some aspects of the heads you might consider if looking for that extra ounce of power.. or that better burn or flow. whether or not you'll hit 200whp or run 12's because of it.. that i cant tell you

good luck