My current set up is: 99 Integra GSR, Bridgestone RE 730's 205 50 15 tires, Type-R sway bar in the rear.

Question: Either go for a set of brand new tires (Azenis or Kumho Mx’s) or I go for Koni + GC coil over set up and continue on RE730 tires?

Because of limited funds, I cannot have all (new tires and Koni + Coilovers) at the same time.

Which option is more better/more effective for a Novice in Auto-x? (apart from trying to drive better!!!)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bemathew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Which option is more better/more effective for a Novice in Auto-x?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Evolution school

 

If you are too quick to set aside "drive better," you are paying more attention to the mechanics than you are to what actually makes you faster.

School first, then tires, then suspension parts.

K

 

I'd recommend Azenis... you'll get immediate results without the hidden costs (more alignments) and speculation (endless adjustability) of coilovers.

One of the top STS drivers at the Austin club SPOKES (beaten only by Andy Hollis, when he's there, AFAIK) drives a GSR with Type-R bar, 15x7 wheels, 205 Azenis.

Do some more learning with those, then go for the upgrade later on when you feel like you've peaked out.

And RJ is right. Evolution School will give you more speed for the money than any other mod... its amazing. Have Fun!

 

Thanks. Evolution school is on top of my "To do list"

Any more comments?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">School first, then tires, then suspension parts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I mostly agree, in principle. Except I would express it this way:

1. Get experience - not just one school, but 8-10 events (preferably more). You can do this on your car exactly as it is set up now.

2. Then get track tires and an extra set of wheels. Not street tires like the ones you mentioned, but real R compound tires. But only after you have a bunch of experience.

3. Brake parts.

4. Suspension parts.

 

Actually, the rear bar only puts him into STS which doesn't allow R compounds.

I second the School recomendation. Follow that with some nice Azenis and then the Coilovers.

Kevin,

STS Civic Si that loves to play with the GSR from Spokes mentioned above.

 

That is right..For the time being, I am planning to stay in STS class..so I will
not be going for R compound tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I mostly agree, in principle. Except I would express it this way:

3. Brake parts.

4. Suspension parts.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

For autocross I can't see brakes over suspension...Braking is minimal, overheating isn't a problem, and optimizing brakes depends on tires for grip (think friction circle) but then suspension behavior as well. (weight transfer affecting friction circle)

I double this statement since he wont be running r compound tires, and throwing more brakes at it will just show the limits of the tires quicker.

Good well bled fluid, yes... but throwing $ at brakes just isn't going to be effective until you get the rest right, and it has more a chance of causing an overslow situation for a novice. (if it just doesn't screw him/her up by causing easy lock up)

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

After the school suggestion, I say tires over suspension. When the shock guy says tires over shocks, get the tires. After tires, shocks will make the next biggest improvement to the car.

 

I have the basic brake upgarde already (Ultimate brake pads) which has improved the brakes.

If I understand you all correctly, for a Novice like me Falkens on stock suspension should give better/effective gains than Koni yellows + GC coiovers on RE 730's (my current tires)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bemathew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IIf I understand you all correctly, for a Novice like me Falkens on stock suspension should give better/effective gains than Koni yellows + GC coiovers on RE 730's (my current tires)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Evolution autox school will give you the best gains....and the gains last for years and years and is transferrable from car to car. Plus it's cheaper than the other two below.

Tires will give you the next best gain. Not only does it give you less gains than an autox school, it will only last you season or two.

Suspension: Listen to Lee

 

Where is the Evolution school at?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where is the Evolution school at?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's given all over the country.

I typed "evolution school autocross" into Google and the first link listed was the correct one:

http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

I guess you didn't think of trying that, huh?

(Click on "calendar" to see the dates and places it's given.)

 

Seat time is the best performance mod...
The best way to improve the effectiveness of your seat time is to have an experienced instructor not only ride with you, but also have you ride with them. It's easier to learn how fast you can drive by riding along with an instructor then to have an instructor try and explain it to you.

An Evo School is basically a more concentrated form of what you can do at a local event... more seat time and more attention... and more cashola. It's worth the money.

Tires are the next upgrade of choice since your car is newer and I would imagine your shocks are not completely toast. If, however, your car was older, I would recommend replacing worn shocks first. R-compound tires, or even Azenis-types, will work better with a "working" suspension.

IF you're just starting out, save your money and wait to buy tires. Toast the one's you have now. Better to make your mistakes on worn out tires, then toast new ones by flat spotting them. You might not be as fast as your competitors, but you'll be learning.

If you ever need it again, The Evolution Driving School and other cool links can be found here: http://www.nerdsracing.com

RJ, can you add the Evo School's website as a link? here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=353425

 

Aside from driving school (a very good idea);

TIRES

TIRES

TIRES

TIRES

TIRES

All of the suspension changes in the world mean **** if you don't have grip!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Angry Joe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Aside from driving school (a very good idea);

TIRES

TIRES

TIRES

TIRES

TIRES

All of the suspension changes in the world mean **** if you don't have grip!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seeing how as tires are the base of your suspension...

 

Yep tires are an autocrossers best friend, until you have to replace bushings, and shocks, and hubs... why because R-compound tires demand more from your suspension.

It's not just a cut and dry, canned response... tires make you faster, yeah, but on a completely worn out suspension, Rs can make you also upsidedown... it's a rare thing, but it happens.

 

I knew that tires will make a big difference but I never thought difference between a Bridgestone Potenza RE730 and Falken Azenis street tires will be so much.

 

Read this other topic, which has some insightful information about the evolution school.