I'm selling my system (2 mtx 6000 10's and a mtx amp). I want to put great sounding speakers in my doors and in all the stock places. I was thinkin of putting 3 ways up front and 2 ways in the back. I have a 94 civic coupe...sooo i have to buy 5 1/4" speakers all the way around. What brand should I buy. and any tips or advice is welcome, thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmjeff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm selling my system (2 mtx 6000 10's and a mtx amp). I want to put great sounding speakers in my doors and in all the stock places. I was thinkin of putting 3 ways up front and 2 ways in the back. I have a 94 civic coupe...sooo i have to buy 5 1/4" speakers all the way around. What brand should I buy. and any tips or advice is welcome, thanks
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tip #1. dont buy rear speakers as they are a waste.

tip #2. buy a component set instead of the 3 ways. It's easier to find a set of high quality components when compared to coax's.

tip #3. Put the front stage in kick panels if you can.

tip #4. Power them with an external amp. The end result will be much better than running off of HU power.

tip #5. post a budget. i can name speakers that are $100 or i can name some that are $1000. which one woudl you like?

 

Read the post EBP_SI . HE wants to use the all 4 STOCK speaker locations, and hes getting rid of his amp/s . jdmjeff I run 4 6.5" Eclipse 2ways in my 94 teg and an Alpine cd player. The speakers are a perfect fit in hondas [although 5.25" speakers will also fit the 6.5" will sound better] take my word for it, I have been installing car audio for 30 years. I always get asked why I don't have a big kikass system in my car, my answer is always the same " IF it aint going to make it go or stop faster it aint worth spending money on. hope this helps 94

 

why the hell do most of you think that rear speakers are a waste? that is the dumbest **** ive ever heard. a system is not complete without speakers all around.

 

rear speakers are for fill only, the soundstage is up front.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2ndchancehonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why the hell do most of you think that rear speakers are a waste? that is the dumbest **** ive ever heard. a system is not complete without speakers all around. </TD></TR></TABLE>

some people dont carry an pasengers and obviosuly sittin in the front will mean you only hear the front speakers.

but personally I think all 4 speakers should be done.

Im about to do mb quart comps in the front- mq qaurts coax'z (6.5) in the rear. Amp powering the fronts and HU running the rears.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sobe_Death &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rear speakers are for fill only, the soundstage is up front.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree very strongly... if they were a waste the factory wouldn't put them in in the first place, take your rear speakers out and just use your fronts and see how you like it, i've done it before and it sucks, and i have a very nice component set up in my car, but i guess it's just a matter of opinion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Read the post EBP_SI . HE wants to use the all 4 STOCK speaker locations, and hes getting rid of his amp/s . jdmjeff I run 4 6.5" Eclipse 2ways in my 94 teg and an Alpine cd player. The speakers are a perfect fit in hondas [although 5.25" speakers will also fit the 6.5" will sound better] take my word for it, I have been installing car audio for 30 years. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats fine if he wants to use the stock locations. i never said he absolutely has to use kick panels. just a recommendation if he's willing to go that far. I'm also recomending an amp for the main speakers because it will greatly increase the sound quality. maybe he'll be willing to get a small 2 channel amp for the fronts. sure you can run speakers off hte HU but will it sound good??...probably not.

take my word for it, I've been into high end audio for 2 years now.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I always get asked why I don't have a big kikass system in my car, my answer is always the same " IF it aint going to make it go or stop faster it aint worth spending money on. hope this helps 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow...you're my hero. what was the point of telling us this??

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why the hell do most of you think that rear speakers are a waste? that is the dumbest **** ive ever heard. a system is not complete without speakers all around</TD></TR></TABLE>

why do i think rear speakers are a waste? well look at the actual music data on a cd. its recorded in 2 channel so for that the ideal stereo setup would be a left and right speaker that can play the full frequency range. when you start toying with multiple drivers playing the same frequency but from different spots you'll run into timing issues and cancellation. having vocals come from behind you is not a good thing. if you jsut want to play your music really loud go ahead and get as many speakers in the car as you can and run it mono. if you want proper imaging and staging then front only is the way to go.

i've defended my statement now you defend yours. please explain why speakers all around are necessary for a normal CD and please dont say for the "surround sound effect." come up wiht some actual legitimate points.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PetroGuyX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I disagree very strongly... if they were a waste the factory wouldn't put them in in the first place, </TD></TR></TABLE>

So, let me get this straight, you are going to let the factory decide the best positions for speakers....not a smart decision


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">take your rear speakers out and just use your fronts and see how you like it,</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have not had a set of rear speakers in a car since 2000 - and I love it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i've done it before and it sucks, and i have a very nice component set up in my car, but i guess it's just a matter of opinion</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess you just don't have it setup properly - for my taste of course.

Let's be honest, there is no reason to have rear speakers in a car - they do absolutely nothing for the sound, if you like SQ - pretty simple really. I could give 5 reasons why rear speakers are a waste, but I don't think anyone here can give me a concrete reason why they are beneficial....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I could give 5 reasons why rear speakers are a waste, but I don't think anyone here can give me a concrete reason why they are beneficial....</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've put out that challenge already but nobody has responded in any of the posts. unless of course you count the good old surround sound arguement.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I've put out that challenge already but nobody has responded in any of the posts. unless of course you count the good old surround sound arguement.

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The thing is that many people (not pointing out anyone in particular) are not interested in true sound quality. They also don't know what to look for. In those cases, it's easy to understand why they feel that having front and rear sound "better"

In the end it's a personal decision. I think the biggest problem is that most people have not heard a properly setup car - or home system for that matter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PetroGuyX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I disagree very strongly... if they were a waste the factory wouldn't put them in in the first place</TD></TR></TABLE>

They are there for the passengers.

I don't have any rear speakers in my stock setup. I have a stock center channel and stock subwoofer.

 

There is a point to having Rear Speakers, it is called 5.1 with dvd audio. True Sound Quality comes from the front. With that said, there is nothing wrong with have rear speakers, especially with no sub.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Auex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a point to having Rear Speakers, it is called 5.1 with dvd audio. True Sound Quality comes from the front. With that said, there is nothing wrong with have rear speakers, especially with no sub.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmm...you kind of contradicted yourself there though. if you need rears why dont you need a sub?? afterall the .1 is the LFE channel. when you're dealing wiht dvd audio and SACD you would also want to have each channel or at least the front 3 capable of playing as much of the full range as you can get. thats something you're not going to get from a regular component set unless you go with a 3 way setup with a decent sized midbass/bass driver.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think the biggest problem is that most people have not heard a properly setup car - or home system for that matter. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i think thats part of my problem. i've listened to too many incredible systems. so far one of the best was dynaudio temptations, with classe omega monoblock amps or wilson watt/puppy 7's with halcro DM68's, a DM8 and a $50,000 cd player. maybe this summer i'll begin work on my car stereo.

 

Some people like rear speakers because they think SQ=how loud it can go. They seem to only be impressed by systems that can play real loud.

I never crank my ****, so I don't really understand this.

From a SQ point of view, it is best not to have any rear speakers. At best, they provide a little bit more volume, at worst they totally ruin your staging. At the very least you are not supposed to have any sound higher than the midrange region coming from the rear. The high range is the primary thing likely to ruin your soundstage if you have it coming from the rear.

 

isnt the purpose of the rear speaker is to put the bass in the music??? sometimes i mess around and adjust my H/U so that i can only hear my fronts and i notice there not that much bass .

 

i love when people use just speakers for sound. if only everyone did that haha. none of that bizzzz buzzz bizzzzzzzzz buzz noise coming from the car next to you at a light with poor subs in a rattiling trunk !

 

Well jdmjeff, lots of opinions eh. I would still go with the 4 6.5" speakers all the way around , HU nowadays [most] have true 4ch. amps in them so to use all 4ch.s you need 4 speakers, and yes ESP_SI you dont have to use rear speakers,but they do help staging [ best when no upper mids or highs in rear] Rear"fill" will move image up and away from the left right bias you get when you sit off to one side [drivers seat] of a 2ch. stereo image. One good reason huh. and yes,sound is improved [ mainly lows ] you have 2x times the power and are moveing 2x the air, and thats a 3db gain [twice as loud] another good reason. what you think ESP-SI. So jdmjeff try it out ,I did see someone say it has to sound good to you or something like that hope this helps. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cha chi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i love when people use just speakers for sound. if only everyone did that haha. none of that bizzzz buzzz bizzzzzzzzz buzz noise coming from the car next to you at a light with poor subs in a rattiling trunk ! </TD></TR></TABLE>

huh? i only use speakers for sound. why use em for anything else?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K24A4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isnt the purpose of the rear speaker is to put the bass in the music??? sometimes i mess around and adjust my H/U so that i can only hear my fronts and i notice there not that much bass .</TD></TR></TABLE>

adding the rear speakers will net you some more cone surface area, therefore producing more audible mid-low frequencies. but why not just get a sub?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The thing is that many people (not pointing out anyone in particular) are not interested in true sound quality. They also don't know what to look for. In those cases, it's easy to understand why they feel that having front and rear sound "better"

In the end it's a personal decision. I think the biggest problem is that most people have not heard a properly setup car - or home system for that matter.</TD></TR></TABLE> bingo. i cant stand the people who slap some tweeters and 4 subs in a car and expect it to sound good when they turn it up. people always ask me why the bass is so quiet outside and why i have only 2 speakers; i just tell them to sit in the drivers seat a minute. inside it sounds freakin awesome, not the best, but good. im not here to please anyone but myself and my girlfriend.

to the thread starter: i think that putting rear speakers in would be fine, however the stereo as a whole would sound better with a front component system, and only midbass drivers in the rear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cha chi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i love when people use just speakers for sound. if only everyone did that haha. none of that bizzzz buzzz bizzzzzzzzz buzz noise coming from the car next to you at a light with poor subs in a rattiling trunk ! </TD></TR></TABLE>

huh? i only use speakers for sound. why use em for anything else?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K24A4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isnt the purpose of the rear speaker is to put the bass in the music??? sometimes i mess around and adjust my H/U so that i can only hear my fronts and i notice there not that much bass .</TD></TR></TABLE>

adding the rear speakers will net you some more cone surface area, therefore producing more audible mid-low frequencies. but why not just get a sub?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The thing is that many people (not pointing out anyone in particular) are not interested in true sound quality. They also don't know what to look for. In those cases, it's easy to understand why they feel that having front and rear sound "better"

In the end it's a personal decision. I think the biggest problem is that most people have not heard a properly setup car - or home system for that matter.</TD></TR></TABLE> bingo. i cant stand the people who slap some tweeters and 4 subs in a car and expect it to sound good when they turn it up. people always ask me why the bass is so quiet outside and why i have only 2 speakers; i just tell them to sit in the drivers seat a minute. inside it sounds freakin awesome, not the best, but good. im not here to please anyone but myself and my girlfriend.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2ndchancehonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why the hell do most of you think that rear speakers are a waste? that is the dumbest **** ive ever heard. a system is not complete without speakers all around. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with this 100%

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2ndchancehonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why the hell do most of you think that rear speakers are a waste? that is the dumbest **** ive ever heard. a system is not complete without speakers all around. </TD></TR></TABLE>

There are A LOT of people with IASCA and USAC trophies in their house that would dissagree with that statement.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Well jdmjeff, lots of opinions eh. I would still go with the 4 6.5" speakers all the way around , HU nowadays [most] have true 4ch. amps in them so to use all 4ch.s you need 4 speakers,
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i never said Hu's dont have any amps built in. i'm simply saying that every HU i've seen doenst have sufficient power to drive a decent component set at a reasonable loud volume without distortion. you also dont have to use all 4 channels, in fact you dont have to use any of them.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and yes ESP_SI you dont have to use rear speakers,but they do help staging [ best when no upper mids or highs in rear] Rear"fill" will move image up and away from the left right bias you get when you sit off to one side [drivers seat] of a 2ch. stereo image. One good reason huh.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

good point?? no, not really. that left and right bias comes from a poor component install having very uneven path lengths. if you were to build good kick panels you would have a minimum difference between the 2 sources and then your first arguement for having rears is shot down. If you're the only person in the car you can also fix this by using time alignment but thats not the recommended way becuase it will really mess up the image in the passanger seat. it does work for the driver though.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and yes,sound is improved [ mainly lows ] you have 2x times the power and are moveing 2x the air, and thats a 3db gain [twice as loud] another good reason. what you think ESP-SI. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Pure genious right there, you win. i completely forgot that component sets with strong midbass performance were designed for the back and under no circumstances can be installed in the front . C'mon, is that the best you can do? btw....twice as loud means nothign if at half that volume theres no imaging, too me at least. if you're impressed by something jsut being loud by all means get front and rear speakers. but to me thats about the same as buying audiobahn because its shiney.

do you have any more points for me??

on second thought.. you know what. i'll help you out a little. the only time rear speakers should really be installed is if you're using them for rear ambience in which case you would run them in mono, with a time delay, and with a lowpass filter. you would also want to run a low volume.

This would be designed to simulate a large listening space with a reflection off the back wall. is this necessary in all systems? no. i think primarily it would depend on teh style of music you listen to and the kind of sound field you're trying to re-create. if you listen to stuff like jazz, classical, opera etc where you're in a large concert hall or a small club then you may want to give this a try. for most other types of music i would doubt you'd see any difference.

With that said, i still feel rear speakers are a waste becuase nobody seems to ever go to that extent and in the end its really not that beneficial. You can have a fantastic setup with jsut front speakers only provided they're installed properly.

 

EBP_Si, My post was mostly reffering to the original question, he no longer wants a sub, not really going into planning out a SQ system. I don't really see myself contradicting myself as I was only stating that for a basic system, not competition or sq based, that there is no problem with having rear speakers. As far as the neccessity of a sub comment goes, if he was loosing his sub then rear speakers can only help fill in some midbass/bass, depending on the size of the speaker. Also, I agree with just about everything that you have stated so far in this thread.

FCM, wouldn't double the power and double the cone area equal a 6 db gain? Also to go twice as loud wouldn't you have to have either 10 X the cone area or 10 X the power (I believe this is accurate but it has been a long time since I have read the MECP book)? The significance of a 3 db gain is only a noticable increase in volume, not twice as loud. The other problem with the gain statement is that it is not taking cancelation into account, again SQ problem.

I believe that the SQ portion of this post has gotten a little out of hand.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Auex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't really see myself contradicting myself as I was only stating that for a basic system, not competition or sq based, that there is no problem with having rear speakers. </TD></TR></TABLE>

when i made the comment about contradicting yourself i was actually just referring to your comment about rear speakers being necessary for 5.1 but a sub was not. If you were actually going to do a 5.1 setup in your car then i would say that the both the rears and the sub would be a necessity along with left right and center.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I believe that the SQ portion of this post has gotten a little out of hand.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree but it makes for some interesting reading for people who may not have thought about stuff like this or were going to ask the same questions.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Auex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as the neccessity of a sub comment goes, if he was loosing his sub then rear speakers can only help fill in some midbass/bass, depending on the size of the speaker. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes but my view on this situation is why divide the money for the project up when you can focus your attention on the front stage and getting the desired volume and midbass level from them. for example if he wants to spend 500 on front and rears then you'd be looking at something like 300 for fronts and 200 for rears give or take. for $300 you can get a good component set but for 500 you can get a better component set obviously. with that better set should come better power handling, better dynamics and better low end performance hopefully. Its a lot more work but you can also do a 3 way front stage with a dedicated midbass driver.