Ok here's the thing. These days, I've been thinkin about MAYBE getting out of the All-Motor game and getting a Turbo kit for my GS-R.

If I stay All-Motor, my goal will be to break 200wHP. If I boost it, my goal will be to hit 250-300wHP.

The thing is... I want my car to be SUPER reliable, like how it is right now. I'd rather take a strong running slower car than a problem filled fast car.

I've been browsing around in the Forced Induction forum alot these days, and all I see are "HELP! I have a problem!" type of threads. There's alot of them! Leak problems, spool problems, idle problems, turbo problems, etc. That sounds like a HUGE headache.

I've been browsing in the All-Motor forum for quite some time now, and there aren't nearly as many people that have problems compared to the Boosted guys.

So my question is... is NA really more reliable than FI? I know that a well built Turbo setup will be just as reliable as a well built All-Motor setup... but let's say you slap a Turbo kit on a GS-R, tune it, and ride around in it for 3-4 years. Will it be as reliable as riding around in a GS-R with cams, pistons, header, misc NA parts for 3-4 years?


"A candle that burns twice as bright, also burns twice as fast."

Myth or Truth?

 

all depends on tuner and builder, anything CAN be reliable. Fast, cheap, reliable, PICK 2.

 

i have noticed that in the FI forums they are having a number of problems but i dont think its anymore than us N/A guys, i just think its all comes down to builder and tuning,I'm sure there will be plenty who will disagree but thats just my $.02.

 

throw a niice garret t3/t04.....you can run 8-10 psi in your gs-r on stock internals fine. If you wanna up the anti you will need new internals. BUt you need a good kit like a full race! but need a clean install and nicely tuned.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97L-esVeeTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fast, cheap, reliable, PICK 2.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That just about sums it up. 250whp boosting or 200whp normally aspirated is not a whole lot so it can be done and be very reliable. You just have to spend money in the right places.

 

but from the sounds of it, going na ment you probably built up ur internals inside anwyays.. so that would make your car that much reliable to drive as a boosted daily driver... most people with problems im guessing, have stock internals and alot of stock parts other then the turbo setup and everything that is needed to make it run..

like people say/and like you've read... you can run 6-8 lbs comfortably with a good tune on stock internals.. 9-whatver lbs on a built engine, and like i said, since you've been NA, you pretty much have a built engine (depending on what you did/upgraded) so its all up to you and ur budget, if u have the money to boost and get a very very very very good tune, then i say do it..


Once you boost, you'll never go back...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ..::91TEG-G2::.. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but from the sounds of it, going na ment you probably built up ur internals inside anwyays.. so that would make your car that much reliable to drive as a boosted daily driver... most people with problems im guessing, have stock internals and alot of stock parts other then the turbo setup and everything that is needed to make it run..
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Well, I'm glad that you said that was a guess.

Think of it in these terms. Granted, when most people say they're going "N/A", they just mean they're gonna bolt on some parts and go from there. To me, going Normally Aspiriated means to build the engine to make all the power it can, using every part.

So, to keep this short, if you build a B18C for all motor,bored to 2.1L, using 12.3:1 pistons, ITBs, 12.5mm lift cams, etc...etc...etc....tuned and making 225 WHP.

Then, you take a stock B18B, turbocharge it with 8 psi and tune it to 185 WHP...

Which one do you think is more reliable?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that a boosted engine runs normally when not under boost. And since the engine is not under boost 100% of the time, it will more than likely outlast the N/A engine which is put under strain no matter what the throttle position or RPM.

 

Heres some key points to add to the thread

* Alot of the outcome has to do with the owner. Turbo kits, have the option to have a boost controller, match that with a power hungry owner=Kaboom. In an allmotor setup there is no option to turn the boost/power up so in a sense, it's dummy proof
* Also a Turbo kit, consist of more working parts than an Na setup. In a nutshell, theres just more chances of a part failing.
* Alot of the problems I see are just small ones, poeple will have fuel problems, rich, ect... but this can all be cured with tuning and a good standalone.
* More of the problems, also consist of stupid annoying things like boost leaks, exhuast leaks, vacuum lines....
* As far as the major problems, you'll see that these mainly apply to the guys with Serious setups. These days 75% of the guys in the FI forum are trying to build 450+ hp street cars. Although there street cars, a honda reaches a point where it's no longer streetable and things ae going to break.
* If you know what your doing, and KISS(keep it simple stupid) you can be as reliable as a bolt on Na car.
* Whether it's boosted or Na, once the motor is opened up, its also throws in a new can of worms, as you now are prone to your motor failing due to built motor/bad builder, you'll see some FI guys have problems with sleeves, but yet again this goes for the guys who are making big power.
*Turbo is endless, the potential is there, the options are there, you build it to what uou want. From mild to wild, you make it as reliable as you want it. If your lookig to be safe, get a simple proven kit, standalone, tuned(safely) and have fun

 

As soon as you push any car far in either direction your going to break stuff. You can just as easily melt a piston with a turbo as you can snap a timming belt with super aggressive cams.

One reason why you hear turbo cars breaking alot more parts is because they can make alot more power. You dont see too many Hondas making 400whp all motor.

You wont break many parts with bolts. However you wont be making any real power either...

 

I used to hate the idea of a turbo on an integra, and without the propper tuning, I still hate the idea of it.

to a point, once you reach a limit reliability will begin to dovetail, and quickly regardless of whether you are NA, or FI.

in either case, I would recomend a complete engine management, this will get you reliability more than your choice of NA or FI.

the question you should be asking yourself is probably which engine management should I run?

admittedly I haven't cared about my honda in over 6 months now, but driving a factory FI car gives me the benefit of watching some serious tuners, and then also some not so serious tuners both upping the power on their car.

the serious tuners get reliable streetable power that they can daily drive, where the not so serious guys have problems out the butt.

so, with either scenario, if you go into it planning on putting the best components on there, with a good management system you will be ok.

the question is, what can you afford?

 

on a stock b18c no doubt will a na setup be more reliable than a FI setup. Reason being, is your engine wasn't design to handle FI. As you know your car has a high cr and it's well known that most b series pistons are weak. With FI, your combustion chamber temperature will be higher than a na setup and can cause your ring lands give.

That said, it's possible to have a reliable fi setup with a stock b18c, but it's gonna take more than your average tuner to make it last. There will have to be a lot of timing pulled and a rich A/F, which will make it harder to reach your already optimistic goal.

Your best bet if you want a reliable fi setup is to have a minor build. like lower the cr will a good forged piston.

 

dont be cheap on fi if u want to be reliable

 

I will 100% guarantee you can get 200 RELIABLE WHP normally aspirated for cheaper than you can get 300 RELIABLE WHP out of a turbo B18C. You can build 200whp all motor for less than the price of a turbo kit itself. Remember when throwing on a turbo kit you are totally limited with what you can do running stock internals. So before you know it you spent twice as much going turbo. But you will probably be happier in the end. Also be capable of making much more power down the road.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by warric_k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It could also be the gear ratio in the posi wiper motor fukin up the vtec timer which would make the aluminum hybrid rotor tensioner go lean and you could easily bend your valve under mid to low torque 2nd stage vtec intercooler.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL. That **** just made me spit juice through my nose.

 

Run a quality kit, and don't skimp out on the details. Run hondata, and get a good tuner. It'll be reliable, but still not quite as reliable as a N/A setup simply because F/I is going to push the motor harder than N/A.

 

I thought it was pretty funny. This guy was telling us how if you engage vtec at 3000 rpms you could bend a valve. That was one of the many humerous responces he received.

 

I think if you want 250-300 turbo it's will be easy to have it reliable. But, even more whp with a turbo car can be. Like someone said it all depends on the builder and tuner, but thats what I think. I can be wrong.