Hey whats going on guys. I plan on swapping my rear drums out for some disc brakes this spring/summer but just had one quick question. Whats the difference (price & performance) between me buying the AEM Rear Disc Brake Conversion and swapping some Civic Si / Integra brakes that can be bought at a junk yard. Any help on this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Rear brakes aren't going to contribute very much to overall stopping power. Maintenance is easier with disks though.

My personal preference is to swap factory disks. The only downside is you don't know the condition of the hubs and calipers from a junkyard swap.

 

the aem 'conversion' is super expensive, and if you haven't already upped the fronts, i imagine your bias would be pretty jacked. oem disc swap, if at all, is the way to go.

many/most classes for competition wouldn't allow it (big brake) anyhow, in case your plans include that.

 

What type of racing? I'm not sure I would do the swap at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What type of racing? I'm not sure I would do the swap at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well i might be doing a little bit of auto crossin, but i want better stopping power even if i DONT auto x. I am getting ready to get rid of the stock brakes upfront for some better discs and pads so i figured why not up the bak brakes too. Ne comments are welcome, i was also wondering what kind of brake set-ups everyone here had. Thanx guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by makaveli284 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well i might be doing a little bit of auto crossin</TD></TR></TABLE>

aren't they all...

As I mentioned... swapping to rear disks isn't really a performance "mod". In fact, disks are heavier than drums so you may actually be hurting performance.

If what you're doing is swapping them because everone in the Civic forum is doing it you'd probably get better advice back in the civic forum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by makaveli284 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i was also wondering what kind of brake set-ups everyone here had. Thanx guys. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, that's why I asked what type of competition we're talking about. If you're not autocrossing or road racing (check forum title) you can't really use any information about what setups are running in competition. I, for example, have a CRX that is only driven on the track in competition and I have kept the rear drums on purpose.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If what you're doing is swapping them because everone in the Civic forum is doing it you'd probably get better advice back in the civic forum. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

aren't they all...

As I mentioned... swapping to rear disks isn't really a performance "mod". In fact, disks are heavier than drums so you may actually be hurting performance.

If what you're doing is swapping them because everone in the Civic forum is doing it you'd probably get better advice back in the civic forum. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Way to be an *** buddy. I was asking a question to LEARN from ppl who know more on the topic than i do, nobody forced you to read. Maybe I came off wrong, I am not 100% sure if i want it or not, maybe its b/c i dont exactly know what i will gain / loose by gettin disc brakes instead of drums. Neways, if someone has an informative post then plz feel free to reply.

 

As Travis asked-you need to be more specific. We both have drums in the rear because we road race our cars. They are built for track use/maybe an autocross once in a while too &lt;G&gt;. The fact is that SCCA allows us to have the 90-91 rear discs on our 88-89 cars. It is also important to understand that there is little benefit for us from the swap.
Why? Because the fact is that the front brakes do most of the work anyway.

If you plan to either autocross or SCCA/NASA race prepare the car you will have to go by the rulebooks. SCCA has specific rules governing what brake parts we are allowed to change in the front. The size of the rotors and type of caliper for Improved Touring, for example, is controlled such that we must use factory calipers and stock size replacement rotors (plain blanks thank you). If you want to use different pads that is considered a "free" item. I happen to use one of several on my car and have better stopping than stock even with the AEM/Nissin pads.

If you do not plan to use the car for anything except street and show-go for whatever turns you on. Personally, I would rather invest in better pads and shoes in the rear along with braided SS lines and brake fluid. Good luck with your decision.

 

wow im sorta confused. im plannin on road coursing my car this summer. i was really set on getting full GSR brakes all around and getting pads, fluid, and SS lines.... this is for an 92 EG. a lot of you are saying that you guys stay with drum. i always assumed that having discs in the rear would be much more beneficial than having drum.... possible have a "balance" between the front and rear even though we know the front does most of the work.

is anyone running rear drums in an EG that road courses as well?

 

Once again-you must take a look at the rulebooks. This is especially true for SCCA and NASA competition setups. Some of us have built our cars for Improved Touring and/or Honda Challenge H4. These 2 are very restrictive as to what you can do partswise.

There have been numerous threads about the conversion. One needs to do more than just bolt the pieces on. You will need to consider the proportioning valve and master cylinder/booster assembly too. Are disc brakes better at stopping the car. In some cases yes. Is it cost effective for a CRX to upgrade-only if you are running enduro events where brake pads need to be changed frequently or sprint racing where you do not want to take things apart to adjust the shoes on a drum setup.

IF by some chance you are planning on only doing HPDE events-you do not have the restrictions that I am referring to. You run what you bring. The only rules deal with safety inspection. On the other hand-if you do Time Trials or Autocross there are rules to deal with. I can only hope that you will do the reading needed to determine what will be legal/accepted by the organizer/sanctioning body you plan to participate with. NASA has its rulebook online and SCCA sells their for $30 (non-member price).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toEknEEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow im sorta confused. im plannin on road coursing my car this summer. i was really set on getting full GSR brakes all around and getting pads, fluid, and SS lines.... this is for an 92 EG. a lot of you are saying that you guys stay with drum. i always assumed that having discs in the rear would be much more beneficial than having drum.... possible have a "balance" between the front and rear even though we know the front does most of the work.

is anyone running rear drums in an EG that road courses as well?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i would like to know too,

 

I did the rear disc conversion on my 98ex about 2yrs ago and noticed a little better balance with braking. I also used the correct prop valve, mc and booster for my setup.

Basically what these guys are saying is that you have to consider what type of racing you want to do and read the rulebooks to see if a rear disc swap is even allowed. some of these guys are still running rear drums because it may be illegal for them to swap. Some are still running rear drums because the improvements may be chassis dependent and the gains may not be worth the cost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by makaveli284 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whats the difference (price & performance) between me buying the AEM Rear Disc Brake Conversion and swapping some Civic Si / Integra brakes that can be bought at a junk yard. .</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only difference is that the aem's will impress the ricers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by makaveli284 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Way to be an *** buddy. I was asking a question to LEARN from ppl who know more on the topic than i do, nobody forced you to read. Maybe I came off wrong, I am not 100% sure if i want it or not, maybe its b/c i dont exactly know what i will gain / loose by gettin disc brakes instead of drums.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I generally am an ***, and make no appoligies for it.

Despite your vague question I still provided you with some useful information. You'll find that the more thought you put into asking a question, the more effort people will put into answering it.

If you want honesty... here it is. 90% of the people who come in here saying they autocross have not, do not, and will not ever autocross - they just think that saying they do - or will - will get them accepted long enough to get their question answered. What they don't understand is that most of the people that do autocross make modifications to their autocross car that they would generally not make to a car they drove on a daily basis because it would be pointless.

 

Want a real improvement to your rear drum brakes? Forget the disks as mentioned.

Go to the junkyard a find yourself a set of 1984-1987 CRX HF aluinum drums. They are about 2 pounds lighter per drum than your stock iron drums and they will just slip right on your car with no other modification needed.

Best of all- They are CSP legal for the 1st Gen CRX Si.

Scott

 

hmm, I previously considered converting to rear discs on my '02 Accord LX, and it would be legal because they were optional for the LX (with ABS). However, I think I've changed my mind.

If I were to do the conversion and change the prop valve, would I "feel" a difference at all?

Should I just get better front pads and possibly SS lines (again, not really necessary since the stock rubber lines are stiff and don't flex that much already) and be done with it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Once again-you must take a look at the rulebooks. This is especially true for SCCA and NASA competition setups. Some of us have built our cars for Improved Touring and/or Honda Challenge H4. These 2 are very restrictive as to what you can do partswise.

There have been numerous threads about the conversion. One needs to do more than just bolt the pieces on. You will need to consider the proportioning valve and master cylinder/booster assembly too. Are disc brakes better at stopping the car. In some cases yes. Is it cost effective for a CRX to upgrade-only if you are running enduro events where brake pads need to be changed frequently or sprint racing where you do not want to take things apart to adjust the shoes on a drum setup.

IF by some chance you are planning on only doing HPDE events-you do not have the restrictions that I am referring to. You run what you bring. The only rules deal with safety inspection. On the other hand-if you do Time Trials or Autocross there are rules to deal with. I can only hope that you will do the reading needed to determine what will be legal/accepted by the organizer/sanctioning body you plan to participate with. NASA has its rulebook online and SCCA sells their for $30 (non-member price).</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is what i had assumed in the first place, that is was part of the rules for EF/CRX guys. im not entirely sure if im going in the honda-challange, too many rules, but it would be cool as hell. im going to be doing a couple track days at sebring and road atlanta some time this summer/winter to get some experience. i currently have a good number of track days at gainesville test track. thanks for the info jc836

 

got drums on my ax car, no problems with stopping here
threw in the si calipers and hubs up front, better shoes, and pads up front, decent fluid works like a charm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LX4CYL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm, I previously considered converting to rear discs on my '02 Accord LX, and it would be legal because they were optional for the LX (with ABS). However, I think I've changed my mind.

If I were to do the conversion and change the prop valve, would I "feel" a difference at all?

Should I just get better front pads and possibly SS lines (again, not really necessary since the stock rubber lines are stiff and don't flex that much already) and be done with it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

OT:

Hey buddy, its time to sell your Accord.

I did 2 HPDEs and a full season's worth of auto-x in my Passat before realizing that I should stop dumping money into my family sedan. With the resale on the '02 Accord, you could buy two mid-90's vintage cars, and serve both your purposes 10x better than before. Not to mention go-fast parts for a race-oriented car are much cheaper due to volume. A front set of Carbotech XP8's were a whopping $200 for my kaa.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthx32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

OT:

Hey buddy, its time to sell your Accord.

I did 2 HPDEs and a full season's worth of auto-x in my Passat before realizing that I should stop dumping money into my family sedan. With the resale on the '02 Accord, you could buy two mid-90's vintage cars, and serve both your purposes 10x better than before. Not to mention go-fast parts for a race-oriented car are much cheaper due to volume. A front set of Carbotech XP8's were a whopping $200 for my kaa. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know, I know, but that's up to my parents and I doubt I can actually change cars this late in the game, especially since they bought it for me to last through college.

Look at it this way, if I can push the absolute limits of this car in the next 3.5yrs I'll be happy. By then I think I'll be able to retire the accord as a really fun daily driver and pick up something fun for AX/RR use. In the mean time, as a college student, my only goal is to have fun and get good grades.

I'm sure in a couple of years I could pick something up cheap, but keeping track of 2 cars will be WAY too time consuming, and I doubt my parents are going to justify selling an '02 Accord and taking the depreciation hit

I only wish they'd saved themselves $1k and gotten a manual


Modified by LX4CYL at 3:02 AM 3/9/2004

 

Like these guys are saying you look at the rules first. Then look at your car as a system second, then the subsystem of brakes last.

Lets start with the brakes by themselves:
The discs are better than the drums in braking, if you are a good enough driver to feel it. A disc brake provides braking force linear to brake line pressure, which is linear to the amount of force you apply to the pedal. Drum brakes do not have this linearity. Due to this your brake bias would be variable depending on how much force you were applying.

But is this stuff important? Maybe the weight savings with drums makes the car faster than a better feeling, more consistent brake system ever could. Maybe the ideal F/R brake bias on the FWD cars is so front-heavy that only Michael Schumacher could feel the little variance in bias due to rear drums. Maybe the mod is illegal for the class you want to run, or the same money spent on shocks could get you twice the lap time improvement.

so listen to and look at what other people do, but dont just copy them; prepare to validate what is being done on your own. then you will be fast

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NegativeLift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like these guys are saying you look at the rules first. Then look at your car as a system second, then the subsystem of brakes last.

Lets start with the brakes by themselves:
The discs are better than the drums in braking, if you are a good enough driver to feel it. A disc brake provides braking force linear to brake line pressure, which is linear to the amount of force you apply to the pedal. Drum brakes do not have this linearity. Due to this your brake bias would be variable depending on how much force you were applying.

But is this stuff important? Maybe the weight savings with drums makes the car faster than a better feeling, more consistent brake system ever could. Maybe the ideal F/R brake bias on the FWD cars is so front-heavy that only Michael Schumacher could feel the little variance in bias due to rear drums. Maybe the mod is illegal for the class you want to run, or the same money spent on shocks could get you twice the lap time improvement.

so listen to and look at what other people do, but dont just copy them; prepare to validate what is being done on your own. then you will be fast</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, I'd rather bump up to better tires or get the car counterbalanced instead of doing a rear disc convo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toEknEEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this is what i had assumed in the first place, that is was part of the rules for EF/CRX guys. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Let me clear something up. Changing from a rear drum to a 90-91 CRX Si rear disc is 100% legal for HC and ITA. I don't have drums on the rear because the rules make me, I have them because I prefer them.