Ignition timing fluctuating??
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From: Hollywood Babylon
Ignition timing fluctuating??
I was doing some datalogging tonight, and I noticed my Ignition Timing is fluctuating from about 16 to 26 degrees. I thought ignition timing was static and a set value? I know you can adjust it by moving the distributor, and by my standalone, but I still dont understand why its fluctuating so much? I dont really understand ignition systems too well so Im not familiar with how it should be acting, I just always thought it was a set value.
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From: Hollywood Babylon
No it doesnt fluctuate nearly that much at idle. I noticed it jumping up and down while drive and engine load changing.
I think I need a Ignition Timing 101 class so I understand how it works. Im guessing there are different kinds of ignition timing (TDC, BTDC, etc)?
I think I need a Ignition Timing 101 class so I understand how it works. Im guessing there are different kinds of ignition timing (TDC, BTDC, etc)?
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Re: (RTW DC2)
You running a Hondata?
Dynamic timing is one of your parameters along with fuel and load.
Accordingly timing will vary with load.
Might be a separate map, one map with engine speed/fuel/load (vacuum),
and the other map with engine speed/timing/load.
Dynamic timing is one of your parameters along with fuel and load.
Accordingly timing will vary with load.
Might be a separate map, one map with engine speed/fuel/load (vacuum),
and the other map with engine speed/timing/load.
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From: Hollywood Babylon
AEM EMS
yes it does seem to fluctuate with load changes. I guess I didnt realize there are different types of timing, "dynamic" being one of them I suppose?
Anyone care to explain engine TIMING or have a link for a good site to read about it? I dont plan to change anything I just wanna read more about it and get a better understanding.
yes it does seem to fluctuate with load changes. I guess I didnt realize there are different types of timing, "dynamic" being one of them I suppose?
Anyone care to explain engine TIMING or have a link for a good site to read about it? I dont plan to change anything I just wanna read more about it and get a better understanding.
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Re: (RTW DC2)
I haven't looked into these things much lately, but the Hondata site might be helpful.
I think AEM might have a tuning forum or something as well.
Last resort, give Yack a call. As long as its not detonating I'd think you're ok.
I think AEM might have a tuning forum or something as well.
Last resort, give Yack a call. As long as its not detonating I'd think you're ok.
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From: Hollywood Babylon
yeah AEM has a forum but its very slow. I think it *may* be pinging, thats how I came across the timing question. I couldnt get the pinging to reoccur though while datalogging so Im gonna do a valve adjustment tonight and try to log the knock sensor again tomorrow. Ill check the Hondata site and see if they have any info. I dont want to bug Yack with something like this, hes got other paying customers to worry about.
Thanks Ed!
Thanks Ed!
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Re: Ignition timing fluctuating?? (RTW DC2)
i think ignition timing is supposed to raise as rpm go up. at least with hondata i remember base timing would be set with timing gun and the rest can be changed with laptop.
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Re: (RTW DC2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it *may* be pinging, thats how I came across the timing question. I couldnt get the pinging to reoccur though while datalogging so Im gonna do a valve adjustment tonight and try to log the knock sensor again tomorrow. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's the beauty of a programmable system.
Save some settings, make some "appropriate and intellegent" changes, and then see how they worked.
Good luck.
PS -- Don't be afraid to give Jack a call, he can give you some max/min timing advance suggestions in no time.
Knock sensor might only be valid to something like 6K rpm IIRC.
That's the beauty of a programmable system.
Save some settings, make some "appropriate and intellegent" changes, and then see how they worked.
Good luck.
PS -- Don't be afraid to give Jack a call, he can give you some max/min timing advance suggestions in no time.
Knock sensor might only be valid to something like 6K rpm IIRC.
Re: Ignition timing fluctuating?? (RTW DC2)
Flux'ing b/w 16 and 26 deg BTDC at what rpm? Is the rpm and manifold pressure staying constant when observing the fluctuation?
The general tuning rule of ignition advance is that you need more timing as the rpm's increase.
But as a function of greater engine load and VE, the engine needs less timing. Load increase has a greater effect on amount of advance than rpm increases.
The general tuning rule of ignition advance is that you need more timing as the rpm's increase.
But as a function of greater engine load and VE, the engine needs less timing. Load increase has a greater effect on amount of advance than rpm increases.
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From: Hollywood Babylon
Re: Ignition timing fluctuating?? (RTW DC2)
Heres a related and informative article on general igntition timing, stolen from the AEM Forum 
People always talk about air/fuel ratios, but setting the correct ignition timing on programmable management is at least as important to getting good performance, economy and responsiveness.
When to Fire
The period between the spark firing and the complete combustion of the fuel/air mix is very short - on average only about 2 milliseconds. Ignition of the fuel/air mix must take place sufficiently early for the peak pressure caused by the combustion to occur just as the piston has passed Top Dead Centre, and so is on its way down the cylinder bore. If the ignition occurs a little too early, the piston will be slowed in its upward movement, and if it occurs too late then the piston will already be moving downwards, so reducing the work done on it. If the spark occurs much too early, the ignition pressure wave can ignite the mixture in various parts of the combustion chamber, causing detonation.
If the composition of the mixture were constant (and it isn't!), the elapsed time between ignition and full combustion would remain about the same at all rpm. So, if the ignition advance angle were set at a fixed angle before Top Dead Centre, then, as the engine speed increased, combustion would be shifted further and further into the power stroke. This is because the faster moving piston would be further down the bore by the time combustion actually occurred. To prevent this, the ignition advance must increase as engine speed rises.
In addition to engine speed, the other major factor affecting the amount of advance required is the engine load. At light loads (ie when lean mixtures are used) the speed of combustion is slowed and so more ignition advance is needed.
But unfortunately not only does engine speed and load determine the best timing for the combustion of the mixture, but the following factors are also relevant:
the design and size of the combustion chamber
cam timing, especially in variable valve timed engines
the position of the ignition spark(s) in the chamber
the fuel characteristics
the emissions levels required
engine coolant and intake air temperature
the safety margin required before detonation occurs
The emissions of an engine will be affected by the ignition timing that is used, in addition to the air/fuel ratio. Oxides of nitrogen increase as ignition timing is advanced. Running light-load advances of 40 or more degrees is common, giving good responsiveness off load, but if emissions standards need to be met, this advance may have to be reduced. On the other hand, the emission of carbon monoxide (CO) is affected very little by ignition timing, being much more influenced by the air/fuel ratio. At stoichiometric and lean air/fuel ratios, increasing the ignition timing can reduce specific fuel consumption substantially. Finally, the emissions of hydrocarbons at stoichiometric and rich air/fuel ratios increase with advanced timing, but timing has little influence at very lean air/fuel ratios such as 19:1.
It's impossible to ascertain the best ignition timing by juggling all these interrelating factors on paper. Instead, making real-time dyno changes to the ignition timing while using an exhaust gas analyser or air/fuel ratio meter and a means of detecting knock is the only practical way of seeing how the ignition timing being used influences emissions, power and fuel economy.
1. Cranking and Idle
Some programmable engine management systems have a default cranking advance of 15 degrees, a value about midway through the range of appropriate cranking advances. Smaller engines with faster cranking speeds need a greater ignition advance (up to 20 degrees), while slower cranking speeds of a high compression engine will require less advance (down to 10 degrees). The compression ratio of the engine will also determine the likelihood of kickback on starting. Engines with a low static compression ratio of 8:1 will accept an ignition advance of anything from 0-20 degrees without kick-back. A 10:1 compression ratio will reduce this to 15 degrees, 11:1 to around 10-12 degrees, while race engines using very high compression ratios of 12-13:1 can sometimes tolerate no cranking ignition advance at all.
Most engines will idle happily with an ignition advance of 15 - 32 degrees. This is a very wide range - some engines will certainly not be happy at 32 degrees and others won't be at 15 degrees! An overly high amount of ignition advance for a given engine will result in lumpiness at idle, excessive hydrocarbon emissions and sometimes exhaust popping, while too little advance will also cause lumpiness. If the engine runs closed loop fuel control at idle, too much idle timing advance can disrupt the oxygen sensor reading, causing the self-learning process to overly enrich the idle mixture. Setting the optimal ignition timing can therefore best be done by trial and error variations.
Timing that is more advanced at slightly lower engine speeds than idle is sometimes used to help stabilise idle. This is effective because, when the engine starts to slow down, the greater ignition advance causes the engine to produce more torque, so increasing engine speed. Many factory management systems use ignition timing as a major element in controlling idle smoothness, with an increase or decrease in rpm at idle responded to by a change in timing advance.
2. Cruise
At light loads - as are used in normal everyday cruise conditions - an ignition advance of 40 degrees or more will improve responsiveness and economy. This advance can be used successfully on many engines - even those with an 11:1 compression ratio, if they are being run on high octane fuel. One factor limiting the cruise ignition advance that can be used is the maximum ignition timing attack rate provided by the ECU - that is, how fast the timing can change. If very advanced timing is being used with light loads and the attack rate is not high, there may be slight detonation when the engine load suddenly increases.
The hotter the camshaft(s), the less advance that will be able to be used in light load conditions (the limiting factor being driveability rather than detonation in this case), however timing in the range of 35-40 degrees is still usually used. Engines with good combustion chamber design will be able to run up to 45 degrees in these conditions. Fuel economy and engine responsiveness are both very much affected by light load ignition timing.
3. High Load
The torque output of a given engine is proportional to average cylinder pressures, so the full throttle ignition timing advance that is used should relate to the torque curve rather than power curve. The maximum ignition timing that can be used at peak torque is usually limited by the occurrence of detonation. A detonation limit is always the case in forced aspirated engines, but not always the case in naturally aspirated engines. As an example of the latter, one Porsche flat six developed best power with a maximum advance of 8 degrees, even though the engine did not detonate at even 27 degrees of advance! A Mercedes V8 engine was able to run 38 degrees at high rpm, peak load without audible detonation. However, best results came from a full load advance of 28 degrees.
On a modified engine having increased compression and hot cams, a peak torque advance of 28 - 36 degrees can often be used. In a factory forced induction engine using a little more boost than standard, the peak torque timing will be around 18-22 degrees, while in a naturally aspirated engine converted to forced induction without internal modifications, timing should be well back at about 10 degrees.
Because, as already indicated, most forced aspiration engines and many naturally aspirated engines develop best performance when the ignition timing is advanced close to the point of detonation, great care should be taken when setting the full-load ignition timing. To assess the maximum ignition advance that can be safely run at a given rpm and load, a dyno is a very useful tool. When the dyno is used in this manner, the engine is held under load at a single rpm and the ignition timing is slowly advanced.
If the rate of power increase tapers off to zero (or in fact power starts to decrease), the timing should not be advanced further. If the power development of the engine starts to fluctuate rapidly, the timing advance is excessive. These power fluctuations can be clearly seen when a dyno is used in a steady state, expanded power scale, bar graph mode. Note that the power fluctuations occur well before detonation is audible. The ignition timing should be retarded by 2-4 degrees from the point of power fluctuations.
The use of amplified earphones connected to a microphone clipped to the block is also a very good way of sensing when detonation is about to occur - the sound of the engine changes in a characteristic way even before detonation starts. But perhaps the best approach to detecting when an engine is detonating is to use equipment to read out the real-time output of the engine knock sensor output, or of any automatic ignition timing retard occurring as a result of knock sensor activity.
Optimal ignition timing is that which gives a lack of detonation, the lowest exhaust gas temperatures, and maximum torque.
From peak torque through to peak power, a modified naturally aspirated engine should increase in ignition advance to 36-40 degrees, a boosted factory turbo car should be running around 25-28 degrees, while an aftermarket, non-decompressed forced induction engine should be conservatively timed at around 15 degrees.
If the engine uses reliable knock sensing and the ignition timing can be retarded quickly at the onset of detonation (and then re-introduced only slowly), more advanced timing than these figures can be used at high rpm. An intake air temperature correction chart that quickly pulls off timing advance with increased air intake temperatures can also allow the main table's ignition timing to be fairly advanced. For example, with an intake air temp of 120 degrees C, the timing can be retarded by 12-15 degrees, so providing an acceptable level of safety while still allowing good cool weather and short-burst performance. The importance of using a programmable ECU that has tables for the intake air temperature correction of ignition timing can be seen from this example.
4. Acceleration
The ignition timing used during acceleration transients should have an attack rate that is quick enough to keep up with the timing requirements. This parameter is often specified as the maximum number of degrees per second change that is permitted. One source suggests that an attack rate as high as 650 degrees a second may be needed in some high performance engines. If the attack rate is not sufficiently high, mid-range detonation can occur in the transition from light load cruise (perhaps with 45 degrees of advance) to full throttle at peak torque (perhaps requiring only 15 degrees of advance). However, if the attack rate is set too high, slight changes in throttle will cause rapid, undamped jumps in timing which can cause minor detonation. This is especially the case at low engine revs - at higher rpm, the attack rate can also be higher.
5. Over-run
On deceleration (with injector cut-off working) most factory cars run retarded timing, such as 10-12 degrees. However, in modified cars this has been found at times to cause an exhaust burble, and if this is unwanted, more advanced timing (20 - 26 degrees) can be used. The amount of deceleration timing advance that is used may affect the strength of engine braking that is available.
Copyright © 1996-2004 Web Publications Pty Limited. All Rights Reserved
People always talk about air/fuel ratios, but setting the correct ignition timing on programmable management is at least as important to getting good performance, economy and responsiveness.
When to Fire
The period between the spark firing and the complete combustion of the fuel/air mix is very short - on average only about 2 milliseconds. Ignition of the fuel/air mix must take place sufficiently early for the peak pressure caused by the combustion to occur just as the piston has passed Top Dead Centre, and so is on its way down the cylinder bore. If the ignition occurs a little too early, the piston will be slowed in its upward movement, and if it occurs too late then the piston will already be moving downwards, so reducing the work done on it. If the spark occurs much too early, the ignition pressure wave can ignite the mixture in various parts of the combustion chamber, causing detonation.
If the composition of the mixture were constant (and it isn't!), the elapsed time between ignition and full combustion would remain about the same at all rpm. So, if the ignition advance angle were set at a fixed angle before Top Dead Centre, then, as the engine speed increased, combustion would be shifted further and further into the power stroke. This is because the faster moving piston would be further down the bore by the time combustion actually occurred. To prevent this, the ignition advance must increase as engine speed rises.
In addition to engine speed, the other major factor affecting the amount of advance required is the engine load. At light loads (ie when lean mixtures are used) the speed of combustion is slowed and so more ignition advance is needed.
But unfortunately not only does engine speed and load determine the best timing for the combustion of the mixture, but the following factors are also relevant:
the design and size of the combustion chamber
cam timing, especially in variable valve timed engines
the position of the ignition spark(s) in the chamber
the fuel characteristics
the emissions levels required
engine coolant and intake air temperature
the safety margin required before detonation occurs
The emissions of an engine will be affected by the ignition timing that is used, in addition to the air/fuel ratio. Oxides of nitrogen increase as ignition timing is advanced. Running light-load advances of 40 or more degrees is common, giving good responsiveness off load, but if emissions standards need to be met, this advance may have to be reduced. On the other hand, the emission of carbon monoxide (CO) is affected very little by ignition timing, being much more influenced by the air/fuel ratio. At stoichiometric and lean air/fuel ratios, increasing the ignition timing can reduce specific fuel consumption substantially. Finally, the emissions of hydrocarbons at stoichiometric and rich air/fuel ratios increase with advanced timing, but timing has little influence at very lean air/fuel ratios such as 19:1.
It's impossible to ascertain the best ignition timing by juggling all these interrelating factors on paper. Instead, making real-time dyno changes to the ignition timing while using an exhaust gas analyser or air/fuel ratio meter and a means of detecting knock is the only practical way of seeing how the ignition timing being used influences emissions, power and fuel economy.
1. Cranking and Idle
Some programmable engine management systems have a default cranking advance of 15 degrees, a value about midway through the range of appropriate cranking advances. Smaller engines with faster cranking speeds need a greater ignition advance (up to 20 degrees), while slower cranking speeds of a high compression engine will require less advance (down to 10 degrees). The compression ratio of the engine will also determine the likelihood of kickback on starting. Engines with a low static compression ratio of 8:1 will accept an ignition advance of anything from 0-20 degrees without kick-back. A 10:1 compression ratio will reduce this to 15 degrees, 11:1 to around 10-12 degrees, while race engines using very high compression ratios of 12-13:1 can sometimes tolerate no cranking ignition advance at all.
Most engines will idle happily with an ignition advance of 15 - 32 degrees. This is a very wide range - some engines will certainly not be happy at 32 degrees and others won't be at 15 degrees! An overly high amount of ignition advance for a given engine will result in lumpiness at idle, excessive hydrocarbon emissions and sometimes exhaust popping, while too little advance will also cause lumpiness. If the engine runs closed loop fuel control at idle, too much idle timing advance can disrupt the oxygen sensor reading, causing the self-learning process to overly enrich the idle mixture. Setting the optimal ignition timing can therefore best be done by trial and error variations.
Timing that is more advanced at slightly lower engine speeds than idle is sometimes used to help stabilise idle. This is effective because, when the engine starts to slow down, the greater ignition advance causes the engine to produce more torque, so increasing engine speed. Many factory management systems use ignition timing as a major element in controlling idle smoothness, with an increase or decrease in rpm at idle responded to by a change in timing advance.
2. Cruise
At light loads - as are used in normal everyday cruise conditions - an ignition advance of 40 degrees or more will improve responsiveness and economy. This advance can be used successfully on many engines - even those with an 11:1 compression ratio, if they are being run on high octane fuel. One factor limiting the cruise ignition advance that can be used is the maximum ignition timing attack rate provided by the ECU - that is, how fast the timing can change. If very advanced timing is being used with light loads and the attack rate is not high, there may be slight detonation when the engine load suddenly increases.
The hotter the camshaft(s), the less advance that will be able to be used in light load conditions (the limiting factor being driveability rather than detonation in this case), however timing in the range of 35-40 degrees is still usually used. Engines with good combustion chamber design will be able to run up to 45 degrees in these conditions. Fuel economy and engine responsiveness are both very much affected by light load ignition timing.
3. High Load
The torque output of a given engine is proportional to average cylinder pressures, so the full throttle ignition timing advance that is used should relate to the torque curve rather than power curve. The maximum ignition timing that can be used at peak torque is usually limited by the occurrence of detonation. A detonation limit is always the case in forced aspirated engines, but not always the case in naturally aspirated engines. As an example of the latter, one Porsche flat six developed best power with a maximum advance of 8 degrees, even though the engine did not detonate at even 27 degrees of advance! A Mercedes V8 engine was able to run 38 degrees at high rpm, peak load without audible detonation. However, best results came from a full load advance of 28 degrees.
On a modified engine having increased compression and hot cams, a peak torque advance of 28 - 36 degrees can often be used. In a factory forced induction engine using a little more boost than standard, the peak torque timing will be around 18-22 degrees, while in a naturally aspirated engine converted to forced induction without internal modifications, timing should be well back at about 10 degrees.
Because, as already indicated, most forced aspiration engines and many naturally aspirated engines develop best performance when the ignition timing is advanced close to the point of detonation, great care should be taken when setting the full-load ignition timing. To assess the maximum ignition advance that can be safely run at a given rpm and load, a dyno is a very useful tool. When the dyno is used in this manner, the engine is held under load at a single rpm and the ignition timing is slowly advanced.
If the rate of power increase tapers off to zero (or in fact power starts to decrease), the timing should not be advanced further. If the power development of the engine starts to fluctuate rapidly, the timing advance is excessive. These power fluctuations can be clearly seen when a dyno is used in a steady state, expanded power scale, bar graph mode. Note that the power fluctuations occur well before detonation is audible. The ignition timing should be retarded by 2-4 degrees from the point of power fluctuations.
The use of amplified earphones connected to a microphone clipped to the block is also a very good way of sensing when detonation is about to occur - the sound of the engine changes in a characteristic way even before detonation starts. But perhaps the best approach to detecting when an engine is detonating is to use equipment to read out the real-time output of the engine knock sensor output, or of any automatic ignition timing retard occurring as a result of knock sensor activity.
Optimal ignition timing is that which gives a lack of detonation, the lowest exhaust gas temperatures, and maximum torque.
From peak torque through to peak power, a modified naturally aspirated engine should increase in ignition advance to 36-40 degrees, a boosted factory turbo car should be running around 25-28 degrees, while an aftermarket, non-decompressed forced induction engine should be conservatively timed at around 15 degrees.
If the engine uses reliable knock sensing and the ignition timing can be retarded quickly at the onset of detonation (and then re-introduced only slowly), more advanced timing than these figures can be used at high rpm. An intake air temperature correction chart that quickly pulls off timing advance with increased air intake temperatures can also allow the main table's ignition timing to be fairly advanced. For example, with an intake air temp of 120 degrees C, the timing can be retarded by 12-15 degrees, so providing an acceptable level of safety while still allowing good cool weather and short-burst performance. The importance of using a programmable ECU that has tables for the intake air temperature correction of ignition timing can be seen from this example.
4. Acceleration
The ignition timing used during acceleration transients should have an attack rate that is quick enough to keep up with the timing requirements. This parameter is often specified as the maximum number of degrees per second change that is permitted. One source suggests that an attack rate as high as 650 degrees a second may be needed in some high performance engines. If the attack rate is not sufficiently high, mid-range detonation can occur in the transition from light load cruise (perhaps with 45 degrees of advance) to full throttle at peak torque (perhaps requiring only 15 degrees of advance). However, if the attack rate is set too high, slight changes in throttle will cause rapid, undamped jumps in timing which can cause minor detonation. This is especially the case at low engine revs - at higher rpm, the attack rate can also be higher.
5. Over-run
On deceleration (with injector cut-off working) most factory cars run retarded timing, such as 10-12 degrees. However, in modified cars this has been found at times to cause an exhaust burble, and if this is unwanted, more advanced timing (20 - 26 degrees) can be used. The amount of deceleration timing advance that is used may affect the strength of engine braking that is available.
Copyright © 1996-2004 Web Publications Pty Limited. All Rights Reserved
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From: Jasma
Re: (RTW DC2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No it doesnt fluctuate nearly that much at idle. I noticed it jumping up and down while drive and engine load changing.
I think I need a Ignition Timing 101 class so I understand how it works. Im guessing there are different kinds of ignition timing (TDC, BTDC, etc)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ryan, I think you should start with the basics....on how an internal combustion engine works. Plenty of books on that, and it will give you a much better understanding on what exactly the AEM EMS does. There are also good books on EFI, including a small refresher that was included with the EMS software.
TDC = Top Dead Center
BTDC = Before Top Dead Center
I think I need a Ignition Timing 101 class so I understand how it works. Im guessing there are different kinds of ignition timing (TDC, BTDC, etc)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ryan, I think you should start with the basics....on how an internal combustion engine works. Plenty of books on that, and it will give you a much better understanding on what exactly the AEM EMS does. There are also good books on EFI, including a small refresher that was included with the EMS software.
TDC = Top Dead Center
BTDC = Before Top Dead Center
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From: Hollywood Babylon
Thats what Im hear for. I try to learn something new everyday. I think part of the problems I have are with all the terminlogy thats used within the software, that can get confusing at times. Trust me Ive gone through all the manuals and documentation with the EMS and am slowly understanding it piece by piece.
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From: Jasma
Re: (RTW DC2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats what Im hear for. I try to learn something new everyday. I think part of the problems I have are with all the terminlogy thats used within the software, that can get confusing at times. Trust me Ive gone through all the manuals and documentation with the EMS and am slowly understanding it piece by piece. </TD></TR></TABLE>
But it's not the EMS software one needs to understand to tune it. One needs to know how the engine operates, what controls what, what has effect on what, etc. Ignition timing, injector advance, 4 cycle operation, valve lift/timing, etc etc etc.
I'm going through the same thing cause I'm learning as well, but I don't know how you can be playing around with the EMS without even understanding, or looking at the ignition map.
It just worries me,
Matt
But it's not the EMS software one needs to understand to tune it. One needs to know how the engine operates, what controls what, what has effect on what, etc. Ignition timing, injector advance, 4 cycle operation, valve lift/timing, etc etc etc.
I'm going through the same thing cause I'm learning as well, but I don't know how you can be playing around with the EMS without even understanding, or looking at the ignition map.
It just worries me,
Matt
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From: Hollywood Babylon
Re: (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But it's not the EMS software one needs to understand to tune it. One needs to know how the engine operates, what controls what, what has effect on what, etc. Ignition timing, injector advance, 4 cycle operation, valve lift/timing, etc etc etc.
I'm going through the same thing cause I'm learning as well, but I don't know how you can be playing around with the EMS without even understanding, or looking at the ignition map.
It just worries me,
Matt
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I AM trying to learn the operation of the engine and what roles each part has. Im not just going out there and making blind changes to the EMS. Im not that ignorant. Any changes I make are educated and very small. If a problem does arise, upload the map again and you are good to go. But terms like "IDLE HI MIN and MAX" to someone not familiar with EFI tuning can be confusing.
But it's not the EMS software one needs to understand to tune it. One needs to know how the engine operates, what controls what, what has effect on what, etc. Ignition timing, injector advance, 4 cycle operation, valve lift/timing, etc etc etc.
I'm going through the same thing cause I'm learning as well, but I don't know how you can be playing around with the EMS without even understanding, or looking at the ignition map.
It just worries me,
Matt
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I AM trying to learn the operation of the engine and what roles each part has. Im not just going out there and making blind changes to the EMS. Im not that ignorant. Any changes I make are educated and very small. If a problem does arise, upload the map again and you are good to go. But terms like "IDLE HI MIN and MAX" to someone not familiar with EFI tuning can be confusing.
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From: Jasma
Re: (RTW DC2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I AM trying to learn the operation of the engine and what roles each part has. Im not just going out there and making blind changes to the EMS. Im not that ignorant. Any changes I make are educated and very small. If a problem does arise, upload the map again and you are good to go. But terms like "IDLE HI MIN and MAX" to someone not familiar with EFI tuning can be confusing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, but if you don't (didn't) know what TDC means you haven't learned the basics yet. And if that's the case you may run into problems when you start playing with the ignition settings, injector sync, injector advance, etc. I know, cause it's taking me a while to grasp it all, and I have covered the basics many a times.
Which version of the software are you using? I don't recall seeing the parameters you're talking about.
I AM trying to learn the operation of the engine and what roles each part has. Im not just going out there and making blind changes to the EMS. Im not that ignorant. Any changes I make are educated and very small. If a problem does arise, upload the map again and you are good to go. But terms like "IDLE HI MIN and MAX" to someone not familiar with EFI tuning can be confusing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, but if you don't (didn't) know what TDC means you haven't learned the basics yet. And if that's the case you may run into problems when you start playing with the ignition settings, injector sync, injector advance, etc. I know, cause it's taking me a while to grasp it all, and I have covered the basics many a times.
Which version of the software are you using? I don't recall seeing the parameters you're talking about.
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jdmb16ef8
All Motor / Naturally Aspirated
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May 4, 2008 04:47 AM
