Ok, current setup is: H22 EG civic hatchback, 215/45-16 Azenis, 22mm ITR rear sway bar, no front sway bar, ground control coilover sleeves w/ Tokico Illuminas.
Duties: Daily driving in summer months, smooth ride is a MINOR issue,.... looking for spring rates that will do well for roadracing/autocross, basically for optimal handling. I am very inexperienced in this form of racing and I need some help. I am a drag racer, please be nice! LOL.

Current spring rates are: 350 rear, 475 front (this is what I ended up with after a long discussion w/ Ground control), so what should I do:

1ut the 475 lb. springs in the rear and order 400-450 lb. springs for the front
OR
2:Keep the 475 lb. springs in the front and order 500-575 lb. springs for the rear.

 

Those are good rates to start with.

Tire pressures and alignment will be more of an issue for you at the beginning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondaddict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is what I ended up with after a long discussion w/ Ground control</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why are you so eager to change them?

I would talk with GC to see if the shocks can really handle higher rates also.

 

step 1: reinstall front swaybar. even better, install an itr 24mm front bar
step 2: increase front spring rate to 600#'s or so.
step 3: increase rear spring rate unitl it's just bearable.
step 4: drive the thing.

nate

 

step 5: replace busted *** shocks that couldn't handle the high spring rates

As someone has already said: Just get out and drive it! After 6 months or so of events, you'll have a better idea of exactly why or if you want new springs.

oh yeah, have fun!

 

Well I am eager to change them because I have money in my wallet..... BAD reason! Actually I want to change them for double duty, stiff rear springs kill squat for "drag" racing.

I am also eager to change them after seeing that most of "you guys" run stiffer springs in the rear than the front. But if you think I should leave the 350 lb. springs in the rear and the 475 lb. springs in the front I will do it. I absolutely agree that driving the car is most important, *BUT* if I was to change,....what do you suggest.

And... 600 lb. springs in the front and more in the rear.. Good GOD! Seems pretty excessive, but racing demands it I guess.
I was also under the impression that a front sway bar was unnecessary, but I will save that for another post. I will just SEARCH.

 

Well its not much of a task to swap the springs for drag duty.

If you've got money burning a hole, use it for events

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well its not much of a task to swap the springs for drag duty.

If you've got money burning a hole, use it for events </TD></TR></TABLE>

So true, I've got a spare set of struts and coilover sleeves for the rear too! Being logical is never fun though .

So the consensus is to leave them how they are? Just get the F*%K out and drive the thing?!

 

why do you want stiffer rear springs then front springs? why do you think a front swaybar is not necessary?

your car makes some tremendous power. wouldn't it be nice if the thing cornered really flat so you don't have to use a lot of negative camber?

nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondaddict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the consensus is to leave them how they are? Just get the F*%K out and drive the thing?! </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's pretty much it in a nutshell

FWIW, if you still have the stock swaybar laying around, I'd suggest putting it back on for autoX. It'll help in slaloms and quick transitions.

 

I want stiffer rear springs to combat understeer,..... how stiff I do not know. Honestly I am simply mimicking what I see that works on others cars until I figure it out myself.

As for the front sway bar, after talking to a few people and reading some posts I came to the ASSumption that it would not help me. Do you suggest a front sway bar? Which one? My car is a CX so it did not come with a swaybar stock. I guess I will keep it,... and as soon as all this snow ******* melts and I finish w/ my transmission I will get out and get some seat time. I have NONE since I "finished" this car to its current state.

 

the problem with combating understeer is that until you know what it is exactly that is causing your understeer you will be hard pressed to find the right solution for it. your situation is a little more unique then others in that you are making a crapload of power and then trying to run it through the same tires that steer the car. as such, you have to be very careful what advice you take. your car won't respond to a setup change the same way a 120hp 2g crx will.

yes, i would definitely suggest a front bar. the itr 24mm bar will help a lot. i would also suggest bumping your front spring rates to at least 500#'s, maybe more. leave the rear alone since you haven't proven that your understeer is caused by insufficient rear spring.

why do i suggest stiffening the front of your car when everyone else says make it softer? suspension travel. you have to keep the outside front off the bumpstop as much as you can or the car will behave oddly at corner entry and have little mechanical grip mid corner. much less then what you'll encounter with the stiffer springs and the swaybar. with the added weight on the front of your car (much of it forward of the front axle) this becomes even more critical. you also want to minimize body roll as much as you can. less body roll means less camber change means more tire touching the road means greater tractive capacity.

your biggest challenge in driving your car is going to be minimizing wheelspin. especially in autocross where you'll likely be in second gear most of the time. no suspension change will fix wheelspin induced understeer.

nate

 

It's not like Reid is just running a stock H22 swap either....fully built and high output boosted H22!

Since you're running an ITR rear bar and no front bar- which I would put on...figure this out before going with spring rates.

ANd I would also go with a different shock for the higher spring rates. I'm running Yellows in the rear with 500 lbs spring, and they compliment each other very well.

I've driven plenty of H22 hatches....one being a 89 hatch with H22...which had THE worst understeer imaginable- on stock suspension also

For my bro's H22 hatch, we're going to try out a 400 front and 525 rear, and GSR rear sway, see how that works out.

 

Thanks BUT: Why increase spring rates in the front to 500 lb. or more, I already have 475, I have a hard time convincing myself that 25 lb. increase in spring rate will be enough. However I am the inexperienced one and it is NOTED! As for the front sway bar, I am now in the market for one.... you say 24mm ITR sway bar? Some last suggestions please.

Is there anything else while I try to keep this thread alive? Also the H22 weight MYTH is incorrect, the weight differences are MINIMAL! Here is a link to pics of B, D, and H series motors being weighed https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550 ! So as for all the "extra" weight, my car weighs 2240 lbs. with NO driver, full interior, 1/3 tank of gas in its current state (heavy *** turbo in FRONT of the axle).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondaddict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why </TD></TR></TABLE>

stop asking

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondaddict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is what I ended up with after a long discussion w/ Ground control</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Every time I post in this forum you give me ****. I'm simply trying to figure things out, and I rarely post unless I need info specific to my car. Sorry, but I won't stop asking, that's why we have a forum. Too bad you spend your time talking ****, not helping out. I'm sure you have some info that would help fellow H-T members. Thanks again RJ

 

Everyone has given you the same advice. You choose not to listen.

You're asking about relatively incremental setup questions for a car that you havent autocrossed yet. You really need to get some seat time to figure out what really works for your car and your driving

 

my fault, i thought you had 300/475. your right, a 25lb increase in front springs won't even be felt. do the itr front bar, leave everything else alone and go drive.

as far as the weight thing. i don't care that the motor weighs the same or nearly so. the problem is that the weight is farther forward of the front axle then a b or d series motor would put it.

nate

 

Listen to Nate and RJ they both know what they're talking about

If you HAVE to do something to the car, then get a front sway bar... I understand how tough it is to hold off on modding the car during the winter but seat time (like RJ suggested) will make a bigger difference in your times than any mod you can do right now.

Remember, we'll all trying to help you out and save you from spending $$ on stuff you may not need!

 

WOrd. Thanks fellas consider it done. Can't wait for this snow to melt! Spring will be fun, losing in autocross all the time will suck though!LOL.

Seat time, ...... looking for a front sway bar.

-Reid

 

Evolution Autocross schools also offer a 'Phase 3' or setup school, best to take it after Phase 1/2. Bring whatever you want, change whatever you want - they'll help you set up the car. Bring lots of springs, swaybars, alighment tools and friends and promise them lots of beer afterwards

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondaddict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ...... looking for a front sway bar.

-Reid</TD></TR></TABLE>


Reid,

I have a 21mm unit for all 92-95 Civics with new bushings and endlinks sitting in my garage. I used it for 3 months when I was in FSP, and liked it in conjunction with R-compounds and the Quaife. Upon moving to STX on Azenis with the Quaife, I didn't like it as much, so I took it off.

If interested, email me... Need money for upcoming season as a baby is on the way.

Free shipping(!) from NJ to WA btw. The family business has a UPS account so it's just a business expense.

scca8@yahoo.com


Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

Hey Reid, yeah I'd say get the front bar first and get a performance alignment going.......If you want I can talk to Nate Canfield from ssscc and see what he would suggest, he's the vice pres. of our local club. The one that drives that blue talon. Anyway he used to autox a civic and did very well in it, and he said it had alot to d with the alignment and the tires.....but we'll see. And don't get too excited about buyin chit, your car actually handles really well, I hate tryin to keep up with you on the onramps (can't believe I admitted that)..............John