Well I thought I had this all figured out in my last post, but I guess not. I just searched for about 30 minutes and I found some contradicting information that I'd like to get cleared up.


We're putting a 5 speed '91 d16a6 into an automatic '91 Sedan (don't remember trim level, but it's not MPFI.) We have two complete DPFI harnesses and one complete MPFI harness. Also have the complete d16a6 minus the distributor.

I'd like to get the car finished before schools starts back up in mid January.

1)Can we or can we not just drop in the engine with the SI harness and then run wires from the shock tower plugs to the ECU? I saw one thread that said you *can* do this, but then another saying you have to use the DPFI harness and add the appropriate plugs. What is the best route to go?

2) What to do about the clutch switch with the auto/manual swap? We'll be using the stock Si ECU. It seemed to me in the auto/manual threads I've seen that people are using the Auto ECU and just bypassing the gear selector switch. What do you do when you're actually using a 5 speed ECU?

3) Auto/Manual swap...are the front mounts on the auto and the manual the same? One thread said you need front, tranny, and rear mount. But another thread said you just need the tranny and rear mount. Do I need all three or just two? The front mounts looked the same to me upon quick glance.

4) Do you or do you not need the Si distributor? Are the DX and Si different? One how-to listed the Si distributor as a requirement, but another one I saw didn't mention anything about it. Is it needed? If so, I'll have to buy one.

I believe that's it. I just want to get some of this contradicting information cleared up before I get myself in too deep.

TIA, and God bless

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1)Can we or can we not just drop in the engine with the SI harness and then run wires from the shock tower plugs to the ECU? I saw one thread that said you *can* do this, but then another saying you have to use the DPFI harness and add the appropriate plugs. What is the best route to go? NO you can NOT use the Si harness by itself. The DX harness has to be modified with the plugs from the Si harness. AND you need to rewire some between the ecu plugs and the shock tower plug.

2) What to do about the clutch switch with the auto/manual swap? We'll be using the stock Si ECU. It seemed to me in the auto/manual threads I've seen that people are using the Auto ECU and just bypassing the gear selector switch. What do you do when you're actually using a 5 speed ECU? You can NOT use the auto PM5 ecu, it will not fire the MPFI, AND the interlock mech. MUST be rewired, or you won't be able to start the car.

3) Auto/Manual swap...are the front mounts on the auto and the manual the same? One thread said you need front, tranny, and rear mount. But another thread said you just need the tranny and rear mount. Do I need all three or just two? The front mounts looked the same to me upon quick glance. I'm not 100% on this

4) Do you or do you not need the Si distributor? Are the DX and Si different? One how-to listed the Si distributor as a requirement, but another one I saw didn't mention anything about it. Is it needed? If so, I'll have to buy one. You NEED the Si dizzy, the DX one won't work.

I believe that's it. I just want to get some of this contradicting information cleared up before I get myself in too deep.

TIA, and God bless </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

For mpfi swap : http://www.fourthgenhatch.com/mpfi.html

 

Thanks for the help guys. That last link is extremely helpful.

The only thing I'm still not sure about it is what to do with the ECU so that we'll be able to start the car.

Does anybody know?

 

The ECU you need to use is the PM6 which is the Si ECU.

 

Well we got most of the work done today.

I've got one question though.

Everything I've seen says that B10 and B12 should be empty...that there might possibly be a wire in B12.

B12 is empty, but there's a wire at B10. It looks like it's white with a pink stripe. Do I just continue with the directions anyway?

Also, I've got a spare PM6 and a complete Si wiring harness if anybody is looking for one.

Thanks again.

 

Cut the wire at B10 and connect with C1 wire

 

It says I'm supposed to plug C1 into B10's (assumed) empty spot.

By 'cut' the wire at B10 and connect it to C1, do you mean just cut and connect the C1 wire to the B10 pin location?

Does the wire at B10 not go to anything currently?

EDIT: Just to be sure I'm reading the pin #'s right:

From the wire side of the connectors, starting on the right upper going left. Upper right is #1, the one underneath that is #2. Is that correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

EDIT: Just to be sure I'm reading the pin #'s right:

From the wire side of the connectors, starting on the right upper going left. Upper right is #1, the one underneath that is #2. Is that correct? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was always under the impression that you started from the wire side upper left and counted up and down TOWARDS the right. Ending with the lower right hand corner. Can anyone confirm?
Do you have a helms to double-check wire colors and pin locations?

 

You sure your reading the ecu pin out correctly? I had a wire in B12 and it was the white and pink wire.... anyway I didnt cut any wires on the ecu, de-pinning would be your better choice in case you make a mistake. Its a pain in the *** to de-pin but its the better thing to do.

 

http://www.fourthgenhatch.com/mpfi.html

Going by this link here....he says that you read from the right, going left looking at the wire side of the harness. It starts in the upper right hand corner and ends in the lower left hand corner...this is how I'm reading them. I do not have a manual to confirm.

Grease Monkey, the wire I have in my possibly mis-read 'B12' is a white wire with a pink stripe. Did you just disregard it and follow the directions completely?

 

That is incorrect information and someone should either delete that POS or change it so as to not cause further confusion.
Also if they had the wire colors for each ecu wire this problem of following that website would not happen anymore.

On the wire side of the connector the proper way to read the pins is Left-Right, Top-Bottom.

A1 A3 A5 A7
A2 A4 A6 A8

Depin, depin, deplane, depin don't cut the pins. If you do then you start creating problems with sensor wiring because you have no idea what goes where, where it is supposed to go now.
1.5l
C1=orange wire (Crank sensor)
C2=White wire (crank sensor)
B10=nonexistent on 1.5l
B12=nonesistent on 1.5l

1.6L
A1=Brown (#1 injector)
A3=REd (#2 injector)
A5=Lt Blue (#3 injector)
A7=Yel (#4 injector)
C1=Blue/Grn (CYL sensor)
C2=Blu/Ylw (CYL sensor)
B10=orange (crank sensor)
B12=white (crank sensor)

The general rule is that you always use the wiring harness that was in the car originally, then you add whatever sections you need, MPFI, VTEC, Knock, etc. It makes it easier than tearing apart a harness completely and moving wires from one side of the engine bay to the other. I hope it all works out for you if not I have harnesses built up and ready to go.

Modified by Caleb V at 5:15 PM 12/28/2003


Modified by Caleb V at 5:29 PM 12/28/2003

 

well i did not use that site as a guide. I used hasports info on the mpfi swap to do mine. If I remember correctly I still de-pinned that white with pink strip wire and put the correct wires in B10 and B12. I have done 2 MPFI swap with 100% sucess. If you have anyother questions do not hesitate to PM me. I am here on this board to help people...(unlike others )

 

well great, I just love using wrong info.

So I don't have a pin in b10, I have one in b12, correct?

If that website is wrong, does anybody know of a good one that has the correct info and is reasonably in-depth?

Thanks so much for the help guys....I really appreciate it.

 

You might possibly have a wire@b12, I have run into it on a couple of wiring conversions I think it was white/red but I really do not remember it is not listed in either of the Helms CRX and Civic.
I was editing my post as you replied so there is alot more information above I was consulting my notes, manuals etc.

http://www.hybridgarage.com/te...g.htm here is another page, i'll see what else I can find.


Modified by Caleb V at 5:37 PM 12/28/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If that website is wrong, does anybody know of a good one that has the correct info and is reasonably in-depth?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is absolutely NOO substitue for the helms for your car, if youre gonna attempt something like this.(I prefer a hardcopy, but at least double-check it, online) It is simply the BEST info you can get for your car. And as you are finding out, it's invaluable!!!
That's all I can. Why attempt something so complex without it?
That being said, most of us, who use it alot, have found a few little mistakes in the helms from time to time. That's why for me, I never rely solely on one source for anything. Sorry, for the rant. I hope I made a point.
PS Knowledge is power, check and compare many sources.
PPS After reading the posts and the websites, we are all saying the same thing, essentially. The mix-up is--the website had mixed info.
He used the wrong diagrams to explain his correct point. And he WASN"T EXACTLY clear in his description. I always read and reread, until I understand it.


Modified by 4crx4me at 4:08 PM 12/28/2003


Modified by 4crx4me at 4:09 PM 12/28/2003

 

There used to be some, not wrong, but missing info from my site. But someone informed me about it and it was added previous to the creation of this thread. And seeing as that is exactly how I did it and my MPFI fired up fine there is no way it is wrong.

If you are confused about how you are looking at the plug #s well you know C1 and C2 are orange and white so just look for orange and white and guage yourself from there.

I changed around some of the wording. I try and make it as understandable as possible but I can't please everyone.

When I get my Helms from work I think I will go in and add every single wire color to this diagram to make it even easier...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FourthGenHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you are confused about how you are looking at the plug #s well you know C1 and C2 are orange and white so just look for orange and white and guage yourself from there.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree forthgenhatch. Go by the things you know for sure like wire colors and double-check each step as you go. And I didn't say your info was wrong, merely a little confusing if you don't read it carefully.
But then there is NO excuse for not reading and re-reading, without checking it against what you know is correct.