All this time I thought I had blown stock rear shocks in my car, so today I pulled out the assemblies to swap 'em with some extra stock rear shocks I had sitting around.

I noticed a sticker on the side of the shock I pulled, and guess what? It's a Tokico!

So can anyone tell me what kind of a shock a gold-coloured Tokico shock is? And how do I tell if the shock is blown? If I squish it down by hand the shock makes a gurgling/squishing noise and then the shaft pops slowly back out on its own.

I figure if anyone will know, someone in here will. Thanks guys!

 

If you can move the shaft at all by your self, its blown. Don't know what type of Tokico that is, never seen a gold one. Old Skool?
Get some KYBs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by greebler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you can move the shaft at all by your self, its blown. Don't know what type of Tokico that is, never seen a gold one. Old Skool?
Get some KYBs </TD></TR></TABLE>

that's wrong. is there fluid around the area where the shaft enters the shock body?

just because you can compress a shock yourself does NOT mean the shock is blown.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that's wrong. is there fluid around the area where the shaft enters the shock body?

just because you can compress a shock yourself does NOT mean the shock is blown. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that would mean my new koni yellows were busted

 

No fluid around the shock body, nope. I can compress it pretty easily though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by greebler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you can move the shaft at all by your self, its blown. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No fluid around the shock body, nope. I can compress it pretty easily though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that's because tokico's are valved for ths very soft stock springs. i can very easily compress my tokico blue's that are in my basement as well, but they sure as hell aren't blown. my koni's were definetly harder to compress.

it's all about the valving.

anyway, look for scoring on the shaft, and fluid around the top of the shock body, those are signs of a blown shock, not the fact that you can compress it by hand.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
anyway, look for scoring on the shaft, and fluid around the top of the shock body, those are signs of a blown shock, not the fact that you can compress it by hand.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahh, cool, thanks. The shaft is completely smooth, no scoring at all. Looks like I'm good to go

 

Yes, it has been many years but I seem to recall seeing gold or coppery looking Tokicos. There is no way at all to tell for sure without testing the shock on a dyno but your noted lack of leakage and wear marks in the rod are the external indicators that they might still be okay. Internally they could be worn but driving and dynoing are the only way to tell that.

The oil slurping noises are standard, you are passing oil past parts and through bleed orifices so it is expected. The fact that they reextended after pushing the shock down by hand says that they still have maintained their nitrogen gas charge which is also a good sign. A human cannot move a shock rod fast enough by hand to flow oil through any real piston orifices (not just the bleeds) so the ability of inability to do so is not an indication of any real function. If it was literally locked up or zipped in and out with no resistance would be a different thing but otherwise humans make really bad dynos. Put them on the car and try them, they are likely better than nothing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can compress it pretty easily though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I can compress my revalved for 900lbs spring bilsteins easily by hand and they rebound just as easily. I actually called bilstein and asked if they sent me the wrong shocks and they were like..."just put them on the car"...basically they were telling me in a nice way my hand dyno is no good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89civicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I can compress my revalved for 900lbs spring bilsteins easily by hand and they rebound just as easily. </TD></TR></TABLE>

How easily is "easily"? Your Bilsteins should be a mono-tube high pressure gas and they should feel very hard to compress because you are pressing against the gas pressure and not because of feel of the valving. A low pressure gas or non-gas shock shouldn't be nearly that hard but a mono-tube should take a lot of hand force or I'd be concerned. He is right that only the dyno will really tell but if they move "easily" then I would look into having them dynoed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89civicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I can compress my revalved for 900lbs spring bilsteins easily by hand and they rebound just as easily. I actually called bilstein and asked if they sent me the wrong shocks and they were like..."just put them on the car"...basically they were telling me in a nice way my hand dyno is no good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A buddy of mine had what he thought was a blown shock on his race car. He took it off the car and moved it up and down and decided it felt blown, so he called the company's tech department to talk about it. (I think it was Koni) He had dealt with the tech guy quite a bit, so they chit-chatted for a while and then he told him what he was feelling, and what he had done to test it. The tech guy asked him if the shock was handy, and he said it was. What followed was classic:

Tech guy: "I want you to pick the shock up and lick the shaft"
Buddy: "Lick it?"
TG: "Yes, lick it, and tell me what it tastes like."
B: "Why, will that tell you if it is blown?"
TG: "No, but it will do just as much good and you moving it in and out all day long!"

Made a huge impression on me.

 

Well its not like easy easy but its not what I "thought" it would be like I would say its easier then the tockico on setting 5. also the rebound is very fast. Which I thought would be opposite.

So I called the valving guys and he's like read me the number stamped in the shock body I'm like what number and he's like we stamped a number in the body so I look and read it to thim and he has all the information about the shock in his computer. He says (I forgot exactly the numbers he said I would have to look it up) "yup 300 over 150 thats your shock" ..."you could compress a shock for a motor home with yer hand too it doesn't mean anything" "put them on the car and try em if theres any problem let me know"

So I put them on and they worked great


I like my hand dyno its cheap and free but obviously not accurate just like my butt dyno.

Maybe I can send you my shocks to be dynoed Lee? I have 2 Tein HA's too you might want to dyno as well...22 clicks of adj too bad only like 9 make any kinda of a difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerBowie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Tech guy: "I want you to pick the shock up and lick the shaft"
Buddy: "Lick it?"
TG: "Yes, lick it, and tell me what it tastes like."
B: "Why, will that tell you if it is blown?"
TG: "No, but it will do just as much good and you moving it in and out all day long!"
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was me Silly but it gets the point across. Hardcore autocrosser Robert Carpenter really likes that and throws it back at me a lot.


Modified by CRX Lee at 4:17 PM 11/16/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89civicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Maybe I can send you my shocks to be dynoed Lee? I have 2 Tein HA's too you might want to dyno as well...22 clicks of adj too bad only like 9 make any kinda of a difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Being a mono-tube high pressure gas, it does still concern me that it isn't extremely difficult to push against the gas pressure even though it is not a sample of the real valving. I'd be happy to dyno it if you want. I don't know exactly what Bilstein planned the graph to look like (I can guess pretty well) but we can easily see if it has failed or not.

My offer still stands to dyno any JDM dampers for free and pay the return freight. I had thought about finding that thread again and reposting to it since lots of folks said they'd do it after the season was over.

I did learn at SEMA this year that most of the Tien internals are Tokico but their sourcing is more coming from Taiwan now so I don't know if they are going away from as much Tokico and to another brand. Also Tanabe internals are made by KYB, to the point that some even say KYB on the outside.

 

KYB has their hand in GAB, Tanabe and Cusco.

All 3 on most of thier models will have made by KYB stamped in the shock body.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we can easily see if it has failed or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They were that easy to push on when I first got them out of the box from bilstein not after using them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89civicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">KYB has their hand in GAB, Tanabe and Cusco.
All 3 on most of thier models will have made by KYB stamped in the shock body..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't know about Cusco and KYB but I have never had a consumer or dealer even mention them once. I saw their booth at SEMA and they seem to be the standard relabeller of other companies products across multiple product lines as is common from Japan. I have not seen a single damper from Japan that was not a licensed product of KYB, Tokico or Showa. That is common in a lot of US products too as: Carrera, Pro, Afco, Lakewood, Competition Engineering, damn near every low rider or 4x4 truck shock, etc., etc. = Monroe or Gabriel internals.

 

Some fucknut shop sold me a set of Tokicos before with 1 gold and 1 blue up front. Needless to say, the gold one leaked after several months.

 

I have heard that a person can not move the shock fast enough to tell if its blown (other than if the rod does not re-extend) but someone told me if the rod does not extend smoothly, if it pauses or changes speed several times, the damper may be bad. Is that true?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MattG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but someone told me if the rod does not extend smoothly, if it pauses or changes speed several times, the damper may be bad. Is that true?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would not use that as a lone judgement and really not much of any judgement at all. The gas pressure inside a gas pressurized twin tube is light and the noticible self-extension is a side effect and not a function. Very light differences in rod, guide and seal friction could make for irregularities that could cause one to be slower or stop, etc. That has nothing to do with function at all when the forces are much greater and speeds are much faster in real use. I would say brand new shocks are even more likely to have differences but by no means does this reflect on function. On the other hand if the shock stops dead it could indicate a bent rod (rare) or really free movement could indicate an air or gas bubble in the working piston area but in it's own it means nothing.

We have had anally retentive people send us graphs that they generated using stop watches and rulers to show that there are differences between new shocks expecting this to mean that there is a problem. They get an "A" for effort and scientific reseach but an "F" for having a clue as to what is going on. After you do this graph, the next step (as mentioned above) is to lick it. They should taste like chicken.

 

So what if you compress the shock all the way and it does not return? My fronts are doing that.

Also, if I pull them halfway out from fully compressed, sometimes, they'll suck back down too.

I think that is definitely blown. Any other opinions?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CBungy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, if I pull them halfway out from fully compressed, sometimes, they'll suck back down too.

I think that is definitely blown. Any other opinions?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do like this:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> After you do this graph, the next step (as mentioned above) is to lick it. They should taste like chicken.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But without a shock dyno to test your dampers, aren't you left with visual inspection of the shock to see if there has been a loss of fluid? Perhaps you could try measuring the weights of the dampers, and see if there is a significant difference in mass between the two fronts, and between the two rears.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerBowie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Buddy: "Lick it?"
TG: "Yes, lick it"
TG: "No, but it will do just as much good and you moving it in and out all day long!"
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dunno... sometimes moving it in and out works better than just licking it. may just be me though