Ok, well it looks like I'm going with the JIC's that are being offered by Kyle. Now I have to figure out what rates I want to run. I know they do a custom setup for you, but I want to get a rough idea.

I was thinking 8k to 9k on the front and 11k to 12k on the rear. I know, most of you like the front with the heavier rates, but my style of driving is suited better for heavier rates in the rear.

Also, what are the stock rates? Anybody know off hand?

 

Hi Bob,

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=603366

I asked a few months ago, this is what I got back.

 

Stock rates are ~4.3K f/r = 243 lb/in (linear rate springs front; progressive rear).

On un-caged car I wouldn't go higher that 600 lb/in springs (~11.5K)

I use 14K/16K and a 26 mm Mugen rear sway bar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stock rates are ~4.3K f/r = 243 lb/in (linear rate springs front; progressive rear).

On un-caged car I wouldn't go higher that 600 lb/in springs (~11.5K)

I use 14K/16K and a 26 mm Mugen rear sway bar. </TD></TR></TABLE>

when you say uncaged, are you referring to rollbar OR rollcage, or just rollcages?

 

12K/8K 23mm rear sway.

I'll probably post my comments when I get back from Lime Rock (11/10).

 

8k~9k front
9k~10k rear

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

when you say uncaged, are you referring to rollbar OR rollcage, or just rollcages?</TD></TR></TABLE>


I think he's referring to the beating the stock chassis will take without reinforcement when you go over 600lb springs..... Can you say creak and groan?

 

10F/8R now w/ 26mm rear bar

I thought my previous set up of 10 F&R rode ok, but after changing to 10/8 the ride is SOOOOOOOOO much better. Not sure how this will do on the track, but hopefully it won't be too far diff from 10/10.

yshi - who hasn't driven a honda in 5 days now

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On un-caged car I wouldn't go higher that 600 lb/in springs (~11.5K)

</TD></TR></TABLE>

true.

most people overlook this , I've driven an uncaged car with 12K's and at that point the body flexed while the springs remained static , it felt like a flexi-flyer...

Craig - I would run a 3.5' mini with mellow transitions and a 1' tombstone

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

true.

most people overlook this , I've driven an uncaged car with 12K's and at that point the body flexed while the springs remained static , it felt like a flexi-flyer...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll ask again (just the first time i'm asking dr. cortez, though)

Are you guys referring to full cages or just rollbars? I ask because if I'm goint to be picking spring rates for my JIC's, I'd like to know what exactly you are referring to as 'uncaged'.

Is a car with a rollbar considered uncaged? or not?

 

Is .5K more going to affect an ITR that much?

If that is the case, I might consider going down to 10/8 instead.

 

Thk, u have the Buddy Clubs on?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Are you guys referring to full cages or just rollbars?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

A rollbar at the bare minimum , and at that point I think a nice strong strut tower brace for the front would be required also.

people are going spring crazy , my 350lb springs and cage feels stiffer than any other car I've riden in , even on spring rates double what I have.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A rollbar at the bare minimum , and at that point I think a nice strong strut tower brace for the front would be required also.

people are going spring crazy , my 350lb springs and cage feels stiffer than any other car I've riden in , even on spring rates double what I have.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the clarification.

I think some of these dampers (being so strong) make the spring rates increase without much thought. My friend's hatch with 400/500# spring on konis is a very rouch/stiff ride, which other cars with double the spring rate I've been in 'feel' much less violent. I can only think that it is the dampers that are making for sure a big difference....

 

10f/12r (will be changing to 8f/10r soon)

22-38mm rear bar

No cage or roll bar

Never seen any of this so called "Chassi flex"

Driven every day.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geratol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Never seen any of this so called "Chassi flex"
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've seen it on more than one occasion.

you dont notice it untill you drive a car with an actual cage.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Smitdog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thk, u have the Buddy Clubs on?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tonight.

Edit - And yeah, I will have a stronger FSTB (whenever the order goes in) and will be adding a RSTB. Probably will put serious consideration of a rollbar this winter.

 

I agree that a caged car would flex less then a non-caged car but having tried stock, 6k, 10, and 12k springs on my car, at no point did I notice any additional flex to the chassis compared to stock.

The idea of a 600lb spring limit on a non-caged car sounds like a false idea concocted by some "Internet scholars".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geratol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The idea of a 600lb spring limit on a non-caged car sounds like a false idea concocted by some "Internet scholars".
</TD></TR></TABLE>

no internet scholar here , I just know 12k springs and no chassis reinforcing felt like ***.

 

That's what I'm confused about.

Does it really affect the chassis that much when going up to 12K+ springs? I can imagine the immediate areas that would be affected (shock towers and lower suspension pieces) but would the rest of the unibody be prone to flex because of it? Is 600lbs+ the limit where road irregularities gets transmitted back into the body because of the lack of dampening from X brand shocks?

Good tech post.

 

I think you're approaching the limit on a completely stock shelled R , maybe with some additional bracing all would be well.

I concur on the immediate flex areas , I would try to tie all the suspension components together as much as possible.

 

I personally dont think that 12K is reaching the danger zone, although I'm sure there is some chassis flex. The weakest point is going to take the brunt of the force, and the suspension is no longer the weakest point, makes sense.

I think when you are at 20k/16k like Wai you are in the danger zone with no cage!!

Regardless, running high spring rates and having rollover protection kinda go hand in hand, dont they? (not to mention strut bars, while less important... still important)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally dont think that 12K is reaching the danger zone, </TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont think danger zone , I just think you arent getting the most out of your suspension.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think when you are at 20k/16k like Wai you are in the danger zone with no cage!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree.

Wai is way too fast on track to not have a cage , I instructed him at the Exphoe and told him directly after to GET A CAGE.

 

What is the car's inteded purpose?? Daily driver with some track use or occasional street with heavy track/autox use? That may help with the spring choice. I currently run 8/10 with the 26mm rear bar on a daily driven / weekend track car. I probably would not go any higher with the spring rates as the ride can get tiring after while.

I would go for the softest springs that give you the handling you want. And you may not find that combination the first try. I have tried 3 different sets of springs until I found one that worked wll for me!!

 

It isn't uber busy at work right now so I can post ***** a bit.

In regards to flexing mentioned in this post: is it fore/aft flex or side to side flex?

I ask this because if it's fore/aft flex, even a cage shouldn't help that much since I rarely see cages going through the firewall and bracing the front shock tower area. Maybe it's just me but I have a hard time visualizing the body flexing fore/aft.

Now, the side to side flex, I can believe since you can do that whole "lift-the-car-up-on-one-jack-point-close-the-door-test". With a rollbar alone, I can imagine the side to side flex would be minimized.