I'm looking to get the KYB Super Special Gymkhana dampers for next year. (I might not even buy them until next spring, but I'm doing my research now) I'm sure this has been covered before, but I didn't really find what I was looking for.

I am not going to daily drive my car starting next spring, although I'll probably drive it 50% of the time around town, to school/work, weekends, etc, and of course to/from track events and most importantly, AT the track. Most importantly, I don't want to have to worry about where I'll be driving the car with the new suspension.

So, i'm looking for a nice tradeoff between being 'acceptable' on the street/highway and worth my money for the track.

Three things I have to compare to right now are the following:
1. EG Hybrid Hatch with Koni Yellows and approx 400lb Front/500lb Rear (6.8K, 8.5K, approx)
2. Wai's car - 20K F/16K R with KYB SSG's.
3. Clayton's (*sniff*) R - Not sure on the spring rates, Mugen NZ

The hatch is very choppy, bumpy, and generally a rough ride. Not terrible, but you feel EVERYTHING, much more than Wai's or Clayton's. I attribute this partially to its weight (around 2100 lbs) and moreso to the Koni Yellows, which are not revalved and are probably close to their capacity with such high spring rates, given their 'recommended' spring rates. Clayton's R - was a rough ride, but still I'd rate it better than the hatch, barely. Definitely had higher rates than 6.8K/8.5K.

Wai's car... wow. Even on the bumpy streets of Chicago, I was thoroughly suprised. Yes, you can feel everything, but suprisingly it was a MUCH better ride than the hatch, Even with spring rates that are more than twice as high. Besides the massive grip and excellent handling, the car seems to absorb a tremendous amount of the crappy roads. The only terrible moments were the train tracks and the curb into/out of the driveway, which is expected. But 20K/16K, streetable??? I'm sure after a while it gets to be a bit much, but those dampers are certainly doing a TREMENDOUS job of keeping the car composed even on the street. Too high for my street car, but a good example of what a good damper does I suppose, at least compared to an overworked Koni. (this isn't Wai's daily car either, but it sees the street sometimes, and no, i'm not seriously considering 20K/16K for the street....)

So, what I've concluded (right or wrong, who knows) is that a damper designed to handle higher spring rates actually does a much better job of keeping the ride managable on less than perfect roads.

Which leads me to my question.... and my conclusion.
Others using the KYB SSGs have indicated that 12K/8K is streetable, even on the worst of roads (like NYC, thanks for helping me out Oscar ). For mostly highway miles and track, I'm thinking 14K/10K may be the limit, considering that the roads out here aren't that bad and this car won't see winter duty.

-> So my question is - is my reasoning flawed? I'm assuming a lot, and my basis for comparison is less than scientific, but the real-world results speak volumes, even if I've taken some liberties with my comparison.

-> Oh, and of course, share with me your street/track setup (spring rates, dampers) and your opinions on the 'streetability' on less than perfect roads, and your opinions on how they do on the track.

Thanks in advance.

 

Chris, speaking from my own experience with Zeal Function S (S6 w/o the adj. valving), 12/8 springrates are very suitable for the street (roads in ATL seem to be worse than Chicago), and 14/10 should be tolerable.

If ride quality is an issue, you should definitely consider Zeal B6/S6 in addition to the KYBs.

 

I am currently running Zeal B6s with 8f/10r spring rates. The ride is firm but tolerable which was a consideration as the car is daily driven. I set the dampers to 2/2 for streets and the ride is softer, but with more movement. Though recently I upped the compression/rebound settings to 3/4 and the ride while firmer is better damped and provides better handling.

You will also need to take into account which tire/wheel combination you'll be running. With azenis, the ride will be quite a bit firmer. I switched to Yok ES100s and the ride is much better for everyday, though I did lose a little crispness on turn in. But it is a trade off that was worth it to me.

 

Chris - you already have a beater. Would you really drive the R with high spring rates? Sure, you might a few times a month, but probably won't be the deciding factor, IMHO.

I did drive Shane's care beliefly and his setup wasn't terribly bad. But, to me I wouldn't drive that on the street.

btw, your shocks & springs on the hatch is probably toasted, that's why it rides really choppy.

 

zeal b6 10K F&R, 26mm rear bar

yshi - who'd like to go stiffer rear, but finds current setup to be his own max tollerable street rate

 

Zeal S6 - 12k/8k

Set on 3/3 for the street, honestly, not too harsh on the street. Tolerable

 

Thanks for your help guys.

According to Shane, you are a big wuss Sean. The hatch I am referring to is not my own, but a friend's. The shock/spring combo is relatively new and has always felt this way. It IS streetable, don't get me wrong, but it shakes you to death. Whereas what I felt with the 'stronger' (i.e., dampers that can handle much higher spring rates) dampers was a much more steady and composed ride.

as for my hatch, LOL, the rear struts/springs/whatevers (87 crx si) hit a bump and the rear of the car has lateral sway. Its very funny. I call it the 'shimmy'. Actually unsettling at highway speeds.

I agree 100%. I am just about out of tread on my Azenis (going to be used up this year at the track) and my S-03's are dying too. Which means when I have this suspension, it'll be time for tires, at which point I'll get street-only tires and track-only tires.

Shane - part of the reason the KYB SSG's are so attractive is the price compared to other dampers. Yes, they are only 4-way adjustable, but the more settings there are, the more chances I have to screw it up. I got a little over zealous (heh, i said zeal) with stuff like this, so keeping it simple is a good idea. I wil look into the zeals, too.

I'm guessing the reason the 400#/500# springs behaved the way they did was because the konis were not revalved for higher rates. Rough ride = under-dampened? It isn't my car, but if it was, i'd consider revalving. Again, the cost of the SSG's is less than getting a set of externally adjustable, revalved konis. (just another reason why I am looking at these dampers, not a slam in any way to others looking down other avenues)

Yoshi - why stiffer rEEr?

I'm still trying to figure out the whole rear/front bias setups. Oscar has said that his 12K/8K (F/R) setup with KYB SSG's has plenty of oversteer with the stock 22mm sway bar, as long as the rear shocks are adjusted stiffer.

Others indicate that they get little rotation with even springs F/R (like yoshi's setup), and then there is Ed's and everyone else's rear bias setup, like 12/14 or so. I guess I could always swap springs and see for myself....

Oh, BTW Ed - thanks for the IM. Very helpful. I actually IM'ed you first after searching H-T, then decided to post a topic.

Ferrell - with your 12/8, do you have oversteer, if you want it?

I'm starting to think what I need is to get 14K and 12K and do some trial and error to see if I go 12/14 or 14/12 with my 23mm sway.

One final question to those of you still reading - spring length? Any insight?

Thanks again everyone

 

Little late on the reply but here's my setup...

Zeal B2 - 10k F & 8k R

I usually keep them set on 6F and 5R, it's stiff but bearable. I don't daily drive the car, mostly weekends and autocrosses so I figure only driving it every once in a while I can deal w/ the stiffness.

The car still oversteers, perhaps a little more freely than on stock susp.

 

If you drive the car less than I do....and don't really drive it at all in freezing winter, then I guess a little more spring than 12/8 is still "streetable"

I will upgrade my rear sway bar to jdm 23mm before my next event at Watkins Glen. I want to see if the 23mm bar can help me to "adjust" the oversteer other than just use the shock setting.

 

I have 10/8 on Zeal B6's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cosworth &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ferrell - with your 12/8, do you have oversteer, if you want it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yessir

My S6 + Azenis is way more tolerable than Chris93Si's old car - Tein HA + Kumho 712's on his 97 Prelude with lower rates.


Modified by Ferrell at 3:35 PM 8/27/2003

 

mugen lowdowns here, ~7k fr/~5k rr...

totally streetable at 1/1 shock settings, track setup is usually 3fr/4rr

 

Hey i'm new to this whole spring damper thing. I just bought my R and am looking to drop it not more than an inch a i want to retain the factory stiffnes of the ride. My options for my Vr6 jetta were so limited that I didn't have the option to compare and contrast products like I can with my R. Any recomendations. I dont auto x but i do drag my car. I, also am strapped for cash so maybe a good setup for under $1,000.
thanks a lot opie

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie112 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey i'm new to this whole spring damper thing. I just bought my R and am looking to drop it not more than an inch a i want to retain the factory stiffnes of the ride. My options for my Vr6 jetta were so limited that I didn't have the option to compare and contrast products like I can with my R. Any recomendations. I dont auto x but i do drag my car. I, also am strapped for cash so maybe a good setup for under $1,000.
thanks a lot opie </TD></TR></TABLE>

why do you want to drop your car 1 inch?

 

Good question. Most people tell me it's hard to top the stock handlinmg on a R. I'm putting wheels on and I dont want it to look like a dump truck, honestly

 

so you are after looks rather than finding out what that 1 inch drop will do to the handling of your R?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie112 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good question. Most people tell me it's hard to top the stock handlinmg on a R. I'm putting wheels on and I dont want it to look like a dump truck, honestly
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you care about what the car looks like so much more than what it DOES, you should have bought another car.

If you want to lower it, search around the forum. There are tons of threads that have many options for you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie112 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey i'm new to this whole spring damper thing. I just bought my R and am looking to drop it not more than an inch a i want to retain the factory stiffnes of the ride. My options for my Vr6 jetta were so limited that I didn't have the option to compare and contrast products like I can with my R. Any recomendations. I dont auto x but i do drag my car. I, also am strapped for cash so maybe a good setup for under $1,000.
thanks a lot opie </TD></TR></TABLE>
Spoon springs

Now back to Chris N's topic....

 

What's the suspension board? cornercarvers? They're kind of elitists at times and forget about real world performance, but they have some great ideas that you can build...and still keep the price down too.

I'll see what I can dig up as well. The KYB SSG's are something I'm thinking about too though. I agree on the adjustability part...do I really need that many different levels? probably not

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mugen lowdowns here, ~7k fr/~5k rr...

totally streetable at 1/1 shock settings, track setup is usually 3fr/4rr </TD></TR></TABLE>

What he said, but lowdowns are borderline streetable in KC. Missouri's roads recently voted 3rd worst in the US. God help the people who live in the states voted #1 and #2

 

Heard you guys can be rough here, sorry to ask a question i'll just watch and fire some pop corn. Thanks for the responses.

 

I've driven a lowdown equipped R, it was also rough, much more rough than wai's SSG 20K/16K OR clayton's Mugen NZ's. I don't know how this is possible, except for the fact that the dampers are able to handle a great deal more.

Wai has mentioned the NZ's, Tein RA/RE, Shane and Ferrell swear by the Zeal S6's.... I just wish the prices were better on those suspensions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie112 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Heard you guys can be rough here, sorry to ask a question i'll just watch and fire some pop corn. Thanks for the responses.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We aren't rough, just start a new topic if you have an unrelated topic you want to talk about. You'll get better responses that way for sure.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie112 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just bought my R and am looking to drop it not more than an inch a i want to retain the factory stiffnes of the ride. </TD></TR></TABLE>
as you've noticed, some are against lowering an R just for the sake of lowering it. It's <u>your</u> car, so do as you like

ok to answer your question, get some Bilstein ITR specific shocks. They have adjustable perches and can lower it ~3/4".

back to ON topic:
Chris N...
W/ the current setup, 234 still tends to understEEr. So I'm hoping that stiffa rEEr will help alleviate the understEEr.

yshi - who's B6 feels a little bouncy and is at the thought of having to remove them and sending them out for rebuild

 

Anyone else with any feedback? This thread was going perty good ....