It's been over three months since I brought home the Civic tub on that long round trip to Atlanta. I have completely filled the civic with boxes full of goodness from such hallowed names as OPM, SBMS, Quaiffe, Cobalt, Koni, Hypercoil, Suspension Techniques, BMW (!), Sparco (much bling there), etc.
I only need a small handful of items:
- harness
- clutch
- tires
- driver gear
- engine

that last one, minor as it is, is the one causing me the most trouble. Larry L. generously donated a complete D16A6 drivetrain, ripe for a nice race rebuild (~$3000 for a H-C legal IT-legal race rebuild).
And now I have to ask myself:
do I keep on with the D16, or do I get a D15B2? Decisions, decisions...
- with the D16, I can run in H4 (and ITA, and F-prod if I splurge for a couple of safety upgrades). It will be quick, and I think that once I learn how to drive, I will have a (very) competitive H-C car.
- with the D15, I can run H5 (and ITA, and G-prod). It will be slow, and extremely competitive in the H-C.

Presumably (I need to find that out) a race-ready D15 will cost about the same as a D16, maybe a wee bit less, so that's most likely not a big issue. The difference in every-day cost will likely be much bigger in the mid to long term. Every little bit helps: if I can save a couple of hundred bucks per race weekend, that's close to $1500 per H-C season.
On the other hand the H5 field has been quite small, with 2 competitors at most this year at any one race, and no-one yet eligible for championship points. H4 on the other hand hasn't had any less than 5 entries per race.

So here's my dilemma: run a cheaper car in a smaller field, or a faster car in a more crowded field? What would you do, if you were in my shoes?
thanks for reading me ramble.

 

What expendables are you saving $1500 on by running the slower engine?

Do you think the savings on tires and brakes will be that great?

 

Axles, CV's, ball joints, brakes, and the distrubutors on D15's are a little less prone to self-destruction. Something about it making about 20 HP less...

 

Of course I'd recommend H5, but the reasons are purely selfish as I just want to have more people in the class with whom to race...

H4 or H5, I don't think you're gonna see an appreciable difference in expense over the course of a season in consumables. D16 parts may be more stressed as was pointed out, but by-and-large none of our cars are stressed to the point that reliability becomes a big issue for ignition parts or otherwise. Production and GT is where stuff is wound so tight it pops frequently.

The real question is the one you asked about car counts. As it stands right now, I think '04 will be a much better year for H5 than '03 was. There are a few CRX's that should be out, I'll be back, Beno should be on track with Whitaker's old Civic. Maybe Giles will bring his ITC car out and whip all our asses. Who knows. Truthfully, if I weren't in H5 because I already had a car and it didn't cost any more to run H4 I probably would run H4, just to have more people to race with in-class. OTOH, I still race with plenty of H4 cars, I just try not to interfere with their battles within their class if it doesn't affect my own position in-class.

Another thing to consider is where you will land in SCCA. The H4 version of your car will never be "the car to have" in ITA. The H5 version is even less desirable in ITA, but there are lots of clouds on the horizon for IT in the future, and your car, mine, and the other H5 cars that are currently in ITA (3g Accord of former ITB fame, 1g CRX Si, 3g Civic Si) have a good shot at finding themselves in ITB in the future, IMO. There's your gamble if you're the gambling type: Bank on the future possibility of having your IT underdog reclassed in SCCA and move down a notch. Then you have the "car to have" and by the time that change has rolled around, the driver has developed the skillz to be dangerous in an IT field.

That's what I'm hoping for, and working towards, for the future. Either way, H4 or H5, keep a look in your mirrors for my red, white and loud. I'll be wanting past.

 

hmmm... thanks for the reply Richard, I was hoping you'd chime in (even though I kinda knew what you would say )

I am not much of a gambling man, really (mostly because I usually lose...) so IF the car was already in ITB, I'd all over it. I just seem to be hearing a lot of "it's damn near impossible to get a car reclassed" and "there'll never be a honda in ITB..."
If the costs are going to be very close, I'd just as soon run the faster motor - one of those things about having a bigger unit, or something.

At least I have time to make up my mind. I just purchased a nice transmission with final drive and quaiffe on board - so I am now rather broke. I have to replenish the funds before I get the engine done...
thanks for the insight, though. I'd be curious to see if anybody else has an opinion they'd like to share.

oh, and since I am not a racer yet, I cannot answer the smack talk at this time. But I am keeping track of who's writing checks with their mouths, and I'll be collecting eventually!

 

I'd run the D15 and H5. If you ever want to run SCCA, skip IT altogether and jump into GP (you should be able to switch back and forth fairly easily - IIRC the biggy for GP is having a fuel cell and window clips).

 

and a fire system (and passenger glass and headlights). With the car classed as limited prep in prod, I don't know how competitive it can be. If it's not going to be competitive, might as well cut down on expenses and run IT (I got a quote on a fuel cell from Mitch and it was around 2k to do it right...).
Besides, I can also run F-prod with the D16 engine... again with the competitive-ness issue.
I think my racing budget will limit me to running one series only, at least at first. I think I will chose to run the HC series for my rookie year. If money allows, I may also add a MARSS race or two in there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmmm... thanks for the reply Richard, I was hoping you'd chime in (even though I kinda knew what you would say )</TD></TR></TABLE>

Captain predictable here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not much of a gambling man, really (mostly because I usually lose...) so IF the car was already in ITB, I'd all over it. I just seem to be hearing a lot of "it's damn near impossible to get a car reclassed" and "there'll never be a honda in ITB..."</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think (personal opinion here) that the net result of all of this PCA talk in SCCA is they're gonna add a provision to the ITCS that allows a car to be moved from one class to another with weight and/or other predetermined adjustments, allowing the "underdogs" to saddle up some lead and move to the classes where they really should be. This will open the door for cars like ours to be reevaluated for their classes, and there are already cars in ITB that more than justify putting our cars, as well as the 3g Accord and 1g CRX/3g Civic Si, into ITB. Some people will bitch and moan, but the people who are in the driver's seat on the IT advisory commitee appear to be eager to correct alot of the stuff that's wrong about the car classifications system, and maybe in doing it they'll undo some wrongs (namely the ITB accord deal).

If not, oh well. I'll still have fun. Being in a car that should be in ITB makes every pass on an ITA and ITS car all tham much more enjoyable.

 

Join us in H5; just don't count on such small fields in 2004.

 

Bah, dont listen to those foos. You KNOW you want a 250whp H1 motor, ehehe.... j/k

 

I asked a question about adding the d16z6 si motor to a cx shell and running h4, but apparently that's a no-no. Fuel tank, steering rack, and anything else distinct to the SI model would have to be fitted to the cx shell, even then, you are not garaunteed to be allowed to race for points.

For some reason, I assumed your car is not an SI, so please forgive me if it is. Anyway, I vote for H4.

 

S,

If it was me, I would run the D16 and start on the D15 once the car is together.