I ran the Panther XPs (1108) @ the brake heavy NHIS road course (track map here, courtesy of NCR-PCA) in my 3200+ lb family sedan with Falken Azenis. The pads performed admirably, and didn't exhibit a hint of fade. Pads still have plenty of life. Was it worth my $195? (yeah, they're a bit pricey for my fitment) Hell yeah.

Questions for all: is the edge crumbling thing normal? Also, is the red discoloration on the edges of the pad indicative of anything?


Questions for Carbotech: Any reason I didn't get the newer 1109 compound? I wasn't sure what to expect, but either would have been fine. And why paint the pads silver? It just all rubs off on my fingers after the pads heat up.


And pics from the SCDA event @ NHIS:

Turner Motorsport shows up w/ their Speed GT M3!!!



Big ego'ed Testarossa driver who wouldn't let people pass in the novice run group


The Turner boys arrive in style!


Trans Am Jag


More pics at: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288916767

 

turner motorsports doesn't have a GT M3 or last time i seen them didn't... thats the touring 325i

 

yeah, I see 4 doors, and IIRC, BMW didn't make any e46 m3's in 4 door trim.

Great pics though. Sucks about the testarossa driver, but doesn't supprise me a bit.

 

I've been on the XP 1108's for the past 3 events and must concur. Love em'

 

Holy $&*( is that a McLaren? I went to the wrong track day...

97 gsr

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is the edge crumbling thing normal?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You want crumble? Lemme see if I can find an old set of HT-8s.....
I see nothing way abnormal there. Pretty standard. Hey, those things get hot!!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is the red discoloration on the edges of the pad indicative of anything?
</TD></TR></TABLE> Nope. I *suspect* its the iron content in the brake pad showing oxidation at the surface. I could be wrong. That's normal.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any reason I didn't get the newer 1109 compound?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Umm... because you didn't ask for it???
Actually, the '09 are so strong, they overwhelm street tires. If you're on Azenis, I do no believe you will see any performance difference between the 1108 and 1109 compound because the limiting factor is now the (lack of) grip between the tire and the road.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And why paint the pads silver?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Gold and black were already taken, and it seemed like a good idea at the time....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It just all rubs off on my fingers after the pads heat up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Solution:
A) gloves
B) wash your hands
C) Ask for XP9 compound next time, we paint those pads brown

That apepars to be a BMW pad. Which one is it exactly?

Oh, glad you had a good time at the track!

Edit: I see you have a Passat, so I am assuming that's the car you drove. I wondered what BMW we sold for $195. Yeah, those BIG VW pads are a bit pricey.


Modified by MaddMatt at 5:27 PM 10/8/2003

 

Your pads look normal to me.. 1108 is really good pad, lasted a long time on our Accord..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthx32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>

Doesnt look like you got them hot enough

XP's will take alof of **** and stupidity.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthx32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Questions for all: is the edge crumbling thing normal? Also, is the red discoloration on the edges of the pad indicative of anything?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was looking for a pic that I had of my Axxis Ultimates after a hot weekend at Jefferson Circuit with long sessions. (pads stopped fine the whole weekend, they just killed themselves in the process)

Now that was a crumbled pad. What you have there looks great to me.

 

Carbotech owns the braking world!!!

Jason-
who adds yet another shameless plug, but can't help loving the stops!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthx32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Questions for all: is the edge crumbling thing normal? Also, is the red discoloration on the edges of the pad indicative of anything?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looks like every XP 08 I ever took off the GS-R. Slight crumble, slight reddish-brown hue on the friction material, plenty of meat left on it.

That is pricey as Carbotechs go, but as you mentioned, they're worth every penny. Especially in an underbraked, heavyish car that generates a lot of heat at the track.

Side note - man, you guys had some neat hardware show up at that event.

 

More pics. The iron theory makes sense, because they're on the leading edge of the pad.

 

I've seen pads that got "redder" (if thats a word) than that.

The porterfield r-4 that I ran would turn red and flake off like that
the street version r-4S would get crumbly and red

 

Does Turner motorsports have any relation to Turner Construction?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthx32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Questions for Carbotech: Any reason I didn't get the newer 1109 compound? I wasn't sure what to expect, but either would have been fine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

1108 is the old XP compound , 1109 is the new XP compound.

you got P+ , 1107 ??

 

Nono. I ordered through a 3rd party (seemed like a good idea at the time, since they were a site sponsor at the other club I visit), and they just said "Carbotech Panther XP for Audi A4/A6 and VW Passat". So I ordered, not knowing what to receive (the 8 or the 9), and I got the 1108.

 

We still have the 1108 compound, we did not discontinue it like the older 1107. SO now you have to specify, XP8 or XP9.

My recommendations: If you're on street tires: 1108. R-compound: 1109.

 

The edge "crumbling", if you can call it that, is very minor...which is why I'd hardly considering it crumbling. Street-type compounds which are molded at much lower densities, generally speaking, than race/track compounds, will tend to crumble quite a bit more when subjected to elevated temperatures (above 700F), as someone observed with their set of Porterfield R4S. This is neither a good or bad thing, so long as the given street compound is used on the street and not used for track/race use.

The reddish coloration is mainly the result of oxidation, as Matt suggested -- very common in pads with a high iron content. Carbotech Panther compounds have a high steel and/or rock wool content, as do other race pads, which helps to improve wear, while also generating braking torque at moderate to elevated temperatures. Likewise, an increase in reddish discoloration can occur (which is not a performance indicator at all), when certain types of binding resins are used in amount higher than 10% of total content. Generally speaking, higher end race pads have a very low resin content (under 8-9%), and are also molded at high densities to ensure compound uniformidy and integrity.

The only observation I have is the use of two rivets, rather than 3 or 4, in that localizing shearing force to only two small areas of the pad is not optimal. Carbotech used to make that particular pad shape with 3 to 4 rivets, but if they have since found a better bonding agent which maintains bond strength (used between the pad material and backing plate), while reducing vaporization after repeated heat cycles above 1000F, then two rivets may be sufficient for most types of usage.

All in all, that pads looks fine...just an outsiders "inside" opinion.

-Andie