Well I’m helping a cousin of mine build up his B20vtec motor. He currently has a B16a1 running PR3 ecu in his 89 civic si. He is getting tired of having no low-end power so what I have come up with for him is to go with a VERY basic B20vtec. This is what we plan to do:
STOCK b20 block
-apr rod bolt
-apr head bolts
-Full-Race dowel pins (thanks FFgeoff)
-SS line kit (thanks Stan aka Flamenco-T)
STOCK b16a1 head (cams, valve train, no milling)
-PR3 ecu with VAFC hack.
-keeping stock redline of 7500-7800rpms since the cams don’t make power over that.

Like I said earlier…..very basic. The only thing he wants from this is to get more lower end torque for the pleasure of daily driving. What I told him is that B20vtec is not to be taken lightly. However looking at what his goals are I do not see a problem with this setup. We are not trying to cut corners or by any means be cheap and ghetto. We will upgrade any parts of the setup if it is necessary to reach our goal. I'm leaning toward hondata but he already has a VAFC and it is his car..... also he doesn't know that much about hondata and its hard to try to explain it to him with limited knowledge.

All said and done what we would he happy with is a stock B20vtec with 135torque and 155 to 160whp with slight fuel management with a FPR and the VAFC. Does that figure seem about right? becuase if i'm correct ...hp is only a figure of tq, so when you add more displacement (TQ) you add more topend HP correct?

He is also planning on boosting with a greddy 18G kit off a 99si. He did boost on his stock B16 but did not like the lag of not reaching boost until 4500-4800rpms on that little 1.6 motor. So here are my questions:

1) should we stick with the AFC hack or save more money and get hondata stage2 for the PR3?

2) can we run dsm 440cc injectors (since he has a EF) with out any fuel adjustments on the afc ?

3) should we set the FPR at about 48psi or higher ...50psi?

4) will it be safe to start the motor with ZERO fuel adjustments and just let it idle on stock B16a1 fuel psi?

5) stock US spec B20z and stock B16a1 head will give a compression of 9.8 with a OEM B20 3layer head gasket correct???????


any advice would be great. Even if is off topic or what not. tips, cautions, warnings are appricated.

 

bump

 

very interesting buildup, unfortunatly I can't be much help so I'll just bump up and read when some of the smart guys start to post in here

 

I don't know if you have or not but you should try posting in the all motor forum. I had questions on my LS/VTEC and have found alot of answers there.

 

hey charlie let me know when you start the buildup - i'd love to watch/help out. looks like you've got a nice plan of what to do.

 

stock internals?

while your at all that why not change the pistons?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mugensport9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock internals?

while your at all that why not change the pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well honestly speaking we don't need to. We only want about a 10 or less compression ration. Will be going turbo soon with his old greddy 18G kit and boosting max of 8psi. IF you seen B20 pistons they are super flat and fairly decent for FI applications. NA we are looking for 160whp & 135tq....... boosted with swap out GSR cams hondata 6psi........ looking to make about 250whp and 240tq


Keebler.... i'm helping out mu cousin in WI. He's about 4 hours away from us. If you want you can hitch a ride with me and we can just wrench on his car over the full day and roll back home. He's just like me.... just not as talkative and also has a EF hb.

 

The compression would be around 9:2:1. I checked out this one website that had a compression calculator but I forgot what it was . I have an all motor B20Vtec with stock internals except for a CTR intake cam, I/H/E, lightened flywheel, six puck, and a chipped ecu. It runs strong. You guys made a good motor choice.
1)stick with afc
2)you can run the injectors if needed
3)right now my fuel psi is at 50 idle. any lower then my motor runs weak. kind of wierd.
4)i suggest to raise the fuel pressure when starting the motor because at stock b16 psi my car almost stalled.
5)9:2:1 compression

Have fun with the install!

 

go with a zdyne ecu when u go turbo...

 

theres a all motor crvtec over here runs 12.8 spinning 24s

 

thanks for the feed back guys.

so how did you calculate out 9.2cr? Was it off of this site.....
http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...c.php

I got 9.96cr (B20 84mm bore with 89mm stroke) + B16 head (42.70cc per cylinder) + B20 pistons (phk) + 3 layer OEM (0.029 thickness) ....= 9.96

thanks guys.

 

i say go with the zdyne ecu or hondata. i think the afc hack is just that...a hack.

the DSM injectors should run fine in that car as long as you keep the injector resistor box.

maybe step up to the cometic headgasket versus a stock one? just a thought.

 

Charlie...

Stick with the AFC for now until he does decide to boost. Why spend money tuning it for an n/a app and then adding boost to the ECU and retune the thing for Boost?

As for the pins, full race no longer makes them. Contact me for the pins and lines

 

anyone else?
thanks for your opinon guys

 

while your at the local shop i would suggest picking up a block guard.

 

If you plan to rev the B20 high, I would suggest a Z10 lower crank girdle with P72 Oil pan and oil pickup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HandCommand &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you plan to rev the B20 high, I would suggest a Z10 lower crank girdle with P72 Oil pan and oil pickup. </TD></TR></TABLE>

.... why would i want a block guard? only boosting 6-8psi and reving to 7500-7800rpms

Honestly, 7800rpms is not too high for stock LS and B20 blocks. Block girdle would do little to help anything! Sure i help mantain the blocks internal integratiy but not by much. Why would you want a GSR oil wintage pickup? how much different than an LS pickup?

 

i dont' know why you would want to use a gsr pick up man but all this talk of b20's makes me horney

im gonna start thinking bout a b20 turbo

 

Whatever you do just remember to get a breather kit so the crankcase can vent it's pressure. And if your gonna boost why not keep the b16. Don't buy the b20 block, just take that money and get a bigger turbo and some internals? Just a suggestion. Good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

.... why would i want a block guard? only boosting 6-8psi and reving to 7500-7800rpms

Honestly, 7800rpms is not too high for stock LS and B20 blocks. Block girdle would do little to help anything! Sure i help mantain the blocks internal integratiy but not by much. Why would you want a GSR oil wintage pickup? how much different than an LS pickup?</TD></TR></TABLE>


There is a difference between a block GIRDLE and block GUARD. I'm talking about the block GIRDLE on the bottom end.

Who said I was talking about 7800rpm? That to me is not high. I go way beyond that with my motors. I guess you need to get your car dyno'd and see where the cams stop making power.

I suppose you wouldnt need to rev that high on a B20, I'm just used to my high reving B16's, GSR's, Type R's, etc. It all depends on your set-up. Get your set-up dyno'd and they will let you know if you are wasting your time revving up high. Each set-up will be different.

I guess if it were me running a B20 block, I would definitely look into getting the GIRDLE.

Why would I want to use the "P72" stuff? Using the "P72" Oil Pan, windage tray, and pick-up is not an option, but necessary if you run the Girdle.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HandCommand &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


There is a difference between a block GIRDLE and block GUARD. I'm talking about the block GIRDLE on the bottom end.

Who said I was talking about 7800rpm? That to me is not high. I go way beyond that with my motors. I guess you need to get your car dyno'd and see where the cams stop making power.

I suppose you wouldnt need to rev that high on a B20, I'm just used to my high reving B16's, GSR's, Type R's, etc. It all depends on your set-up. Get your set-up dyno'd and they will let you know if you are wasting your time revving up high. Each set-up will be different.

I guess if it were me running a B20 block, I would definitely look into getting the GIRDLE.

Why would I want to use the "P72" stuff? Using the "P72" Oil Pan, windage tray, and pick-up is not an option, but necessary if you run the Girdle. </TD></TR></TABLE>


yeah i know what the block gauard and block guirdle is. If you read my post about what kinda of whp and cams I'm using you'll see why I did not feel the need for the guirdle. I know the stock B16a1 cams will stop making power at about 7500-7800rpms... so no need to rev higher than that.

thanks tony