What's the general thinking here?
I don't want a big brake upgrade kit, cause I still plan on running 15's, but I want crossdrilled all the way around, and some nicer pads. Any thoughts? Comments?

 

..stick w/ solid rotors and just upgrade your pads/lines. A set of Porterfield r4s pads and a set of Goodridge ss brake lines [most of the compliance in the system is here] and some fresh fluid will dramatically increase brake pedal feel and consisitency!
If your really wanting to swap rotors use slotted, if your not changing the diameter or size of thr rotor, essentially all your doing is lightning your rotor and this will not have any dramatic effect on your pedal/brake feel. The only utility for having drilled rotor is when using extremly large rotors on applications where unsprung weight is a consideration, such as street bikes. Or, where they are used as eye candy, ala Ferrari, Porsche, etc. However, there rotors are cast w/ the holes already present and dont suffer from the same stress failures as the rotors that are drilled post-casting! Also, if you notice, most major races teams use either solid or slotted rotors, not drilled! Must be a reason...?
Also, increasing pedal feel has nothing to do w/ stopping distance! The only part(s) on your car that actually stop you are the tires, honestly!
I was in the same position as you are now, and I simply decided to use soild rotors w/ ss lines and better pads, and when I can afford it, Ill look into some wilwood/alcon/spoon/ap 4-piston calipers!
By the way, if you look up http://www.fastbrakes.com they probably have an application for you that will clear 15's w/ ease, Brian specializes in making low buck performance brake set-ups, check it out!

 

I would agree with the slotted rotrs instead of cross drilled. I run the slotted in my 944 while my dad run the cross drilled and his are showing signs of cracking at the holes. In the process of heating and cooling the cross drilled have been known the crack far more often then the slotted. The only thing you have to watch for in slotted rotor is wearing it all the way down to where you no longer have the slots. This really isn't bad for the rotor, you just end up with a normal rotor. That tends to happen over years though.

You can also get rotors that have been cryogenicly treated... which is basically frozen and then thawed. Supposedly this process lines up the molecules in a more organized pattern making them stronger. Who knows if this is really true but someone I know that runs in the Speedvision series swears by them.

 

Those Poor Rotors!
by James Walker, Jr. of scR motorsports

Let's look at some common rotor `modification' and `performance' upgrades that you may have been exposed to and try to separate the marketing from the engineering...

Super Sizing

Bigger rotors will make your friends think you are cool, bigger rotors look sexy, but bigger rotors do not stop the car. What a bigger rotor will do is lower the overall operating temperature of the brakes - which is a GREAT idea IF your temperatures are causing problems with other parts of the braking system. Take for example a F500 racecar - a small 800 pound single seat formula car. While the brakes are certainly much smaller than those found on a 3,000 pound GT1 Camaro, that does not necessarily mean that they need to be made larger. In fact, swapping on a GT1 brake package would probably do more harm than good - that's a lot of steel hanging on the wheel that needs to accelerate each time the `go' pedal is pushed. So, the motto of this story is bigger is better until your temperatures are under control. After that point, you are doing more harm than good...unless you really like the look (and hey - some of us do!).

Crossdrilling

Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40's and 50's, not a whole lot. Rotors were first `drilled' because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures - a process known as `gassing out'. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses `somewhere to go'. It was an effective solution, but today's friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.

For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief they don't lower temperatures (in fact, by removing weight from the rotor, the temperatures can actually increase a little), they create stress risers allowing the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads - sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. (Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.)

The one glaring exception here is in the rare situation where the rotors are so oversized (look at any performance motorcycle or lighter formula car) that the rotors are drilled like Swiss cheese. While the issues of stress risers and brake pad wear are still present, drilling is used to reduce the mass of the parts in spite of these concerns. Remember - nothing comes for free. If these teams switched to non-drilled rotors, they would see lower operating temperatures and longer brake pad life - at the expense of higher weight. It's all about trade-offs.

Slotting

Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the `glazing' often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)

Too cool!

Last year we bought 4 rotors. Two were bone stock, and two were subjected to a process know as Cryogenically Treating - one of the high-tech buzzwords floating around the paddock. The rotors were run back-to-back on the same track on the same car on the same day with temperatures taken to make sure that they saw the same level of heat. Following the track session, the parts were removed and we had them literally dissected by a materials lab.

The testing conducted included surface hardness, grain structure analysis, density, and surface scanning with an electron microscope. Guess what - after seeing the heat of use, the rotors looked identical in every regard. This is not to say that there is not a benefit from treating other parts which see lower temperatures and/or have different material properties, but treating our rotors on our car showed no tangible benefits (note that it didn't seem to hurt anything either). Come to your own conclusions, but in our case, we'll pass.

Summary

So, what's the secret recipe? Again, there is no absolute right or wrong answer, but like most modifications, there are those which appear to be well-founded and those that `look cool.' If ultimate thermal performance is your goal, look to what the top teams are running (relatively large, slotted rotors). However, if `image' is your thing, break out the drillpress - and be prepared to replace your brake pads on a regular basis.

 

looks like he agrees with me...

 

Brakes again?? Todd, don't you ever read my posts about brakes????? I see the way it is.. Get brembo blanks and hawk HPS pads.... If you do track driving, but some R4, Carbotch Panther Plus, or Hawk Blues on (track only for the blues..)

 

carbon fiber rotors

 

ATS carbon fiber rotors

whoopie! my first post in the prelude forum

 

Yeah, but:
#1. how much are they
#2. Where do I get them
#3. Exactly how UNstreetable are they?

 

Funny you should ask....
1 & 2. Godspeed carries the ATS carbon rotors and they run ~ $1400 US and include pads! However, this if for the front only, and is applicable to 97+ preludes and itr's, since the front hub's, caliper, and rotors are shared by the cars!
3. About the streetability? Well, I wouldnt see these rotors behaving any differentlly than the newest Porsche brakes found on the GT2! Of all the reviews I have read, the brakes need some initial warm-up, but the grip and pedal feel is phenomenal!
But, when I spoke w/ Godspeed about these brakes, I did not recieve any information on heat range of the rotors, pads, etc.
Lastly, REMEMBER THIS, if you get brake upgrade, big brakes, lines, whatever, be certain that the components are DOT approved! If they are not and you crash, you solely will be responsible for the damages incured to your vehicle, insurnace has the right to nullify coverage for use of non-DOT spec components, so always ask!

 

$1400? I'd rather steer around something then!

Not like that's expensive for brakes, I just don't need them...

OK.. well, then.

 

...just get some Porterfiled r4s pads, Goodridge ss lines, and some fresh fluid and send me the remaning $1150, and you can email me everyday and I'll remind you of how good a brake setup you really have, and that you dont need anything else!

 

porterfield pads are the way to go.... use em on the track and love em.

 

ats carbon fiber rotors with some spoon calipers... now THATS a brake setup!

 

Thanks ekt9... i think I will send you the bill...