Alright, I am just starting to put some decent parts on my car.
Right now, I just have I/H and hi-flo cat, but I plan on getting a widened TB and exhaust soon.

I'll see how the car runs with that setup before I start tearing open my engine (cams, more compression, port and polish, and a computer reprog. - eventually)


My question is: Will I be running way too lean with all the bolt ons? (I/H/E TB and Cat)
I know the car will lean out some, but is it going to be bad for the engine?

A Fuel Controller would for sure give me more power with that setup. But, I don't want to get a VAFC, Fields, or anything because I plan on getting a Hondata Stage 2 after I upgrade to bigger cams. It would be a waste of $$ to get a fuel controller before then . . .

as usual, any help is much appreciated.


peace,

- kanobe -

 

I would doubt that you would go lean because Hondas run pretty rich anyway.

Also, the stock 240 CC injectors should be good upto ~200 or so.

I went with 270 CC injectors when I had an N20 kit, but car still ran super rich. I used a Field to lean everywhere in RPM band. Rich was confirmed by reading plugs, soot on bumper, A/F ratio meter in car reading stock O2 sensor, and wideband O2 on dyno...

Maybe an adjustable FPR to raise FP a little?

FB

 

Its possible.

Running CAI, header, exhaust and (stock) LS intake manifold on my B20 caused a lean condition from 4500-5000. How did I know this? The Autometer A/F Gauge would go to extreme LEAN in that area.
I bought a B&M regulator and on the dyno...I upped the fuel pressure little by little.
I ended up going from 36 PSI to 46 PSI and the LEAN condtion went away...and I also gained 4 ft-lbs of torque in that range with no loss in HP/TQ anyhwere in the powerband.

 

Hey,

Maybe I should have said GSRs run rich, esp the sedans

HX, what size injectors did you have? Are they also 240 CC?

An adjustable FPR would prob help... I just read yesterday that stock fuel pressure on an LS is like ~35, but on a GSR it's like ~45? Maybe Honda makes the VTECs a lot richer?

Oh another thought, if you're worried about running lean you would prob want an FPR, upgraded fuel pump or injectors to get more fuel. A piggy-back controller like the Field or VAFC is much better at taking fuel out than adding it. If you really are near the limit of stock fuel, controller can't richen anymore anyway, need to increase capacty at that point...

Thougts?

FB

 

Why do you say the piggyback systems (Apex AFC) takes fuel out better then adding it? I upped my fuel via the S-AFC and it worked great. +/- 5% is usually all that is needed when tuning with just simple bolt-ons.

 

My injectors are STOCK. So, the sedans run rich, eh?

Sounds like I wont be lacking too much fuel with all the bolt-ons, so I will just wait until I have cams to change the fuel map.

By the way, it's not a sedan, it's an Integra Limosine. (you always wondered what those extra doors were for!)


- kanobe -

 

Hey HX,

I meant that if you are really taxing the fuel system, like over ~200 HP at the wheels, you can't really add a lot more fuel with a VAFC. Doesn't it effectively change the injector pulse width (ie make it stay open longer for more fuel)? If the injector is at or near 100% duty cycle, it can' supply any more fuel, correct?

That was my "understanding" of it Also, there have been threads discussing it in the past. As with anything on the internet, gotta look at all the statements with a grain of salt I guess.

I apologize, I should have qualified my statement better.

I think if you're still well within the limits of the stock fuel system you can def richen the mixture somewhat if necessary (a few percent like you mentioned). It's mostly for fine tuning here and there. They can lean out quite a bit. This is how I passed MA smog with the dyno test! I think we leaned it like 25% to get the HCs to pass.

Unless you have a lot of extra capacity, I don't think you could really richen it "that" much though. For example, are stock injectors running something like 85%+ duty cycle? You can only get them to 100% and they can't supply any more fuel, right?

Thoughts?

FB

 

Don't the sedans share the same ecu as the coupe. Why would they run more rich?

 

Oh sorry,

I was just kidding. Check my sig, I'm sporting a sedan as well

FB

 

<u>reference post:</u>
vacuum disconnected, pinched (aka "wot")
b18c1 48-55psi
b18b1 40-47psi

vacuum connected
b18c1 39-46psi
b18b1 31-36psi

this is what my 1994 integra service manual says. i'm still curious what helms says since this is a 7psi range...

 

the price of a gsr compaired to a ls seems to quantify this theory as truth.

 

heh heh. yeah...it's friday

 

A air/fuel ratio gauge isn't a bad investement for you if you're concerned. It helped me see I was running rich on the low cam and a little leaner than optimal from 6k on when all I had was I/H/E. I used a VAFC to richen/lean respectively, but I've had to go to a FPR since I've gotten cams, as the VAFC hit it's limit.

Since you're talking budget, I'd get a gauge to investigate. It's cheaper than one run on a dyno and will definitely give you an idea if you have a lean condition. You'll probably find that you're just fine and at the worse could use a little optimizing in certain areas.