i would like to know how they were under racing conditions?? how long they lasted?? and if you can compare them to other makes. thanks.

 

from the search
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=499552
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=499546

 

that search was ok, but i need a honda driver, racing a honda on the track with these tires, not porsche owners, or subaru owners saying things, thanks anyways.

 

A car is a car. 4 wheels, reciprocating Otto cycle engine. Same thing, different name.

I've seen a few Porsche guys run them, and they seem to really rave about them. Said they were better than the Kumhos if you can afford the pricetag(long lasting, didn't get greasy, grip was great). Closest comparison I've heard is that they are a grippier Toyo RA-1.

BMW guys like them too, but never seen one run them in person.

 

yes some how 3000+lb turbo and non turbo RWD and AWD cars are just the same as 2400 lb FWD cars

personally I'll stick with the Azenis and spend the extra on seat time.

 

I've heard they are Toyo grip and wear for Hoosier $$. Mich. makes a great tire, but I'm sticking with toyo...consistent from sticker to cord!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mythos EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes some how 3000+lb turbo and non turbo RWD and AWD cars are just the same as 2400 lb FWD cars</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, but when they can relate them to kumho, hoosier and toyos in terms of grip, feel, tread wear and heat-cycling then you better goddamn listen.

I'd be interested to try these out - the word i've gotten is 50+ heat cycles and iron wear on the tread, stable in the rain and as sticky or stickier than toyo.

 

i'm wondering the same thing, if they can last they would be great for enduros.

 

I ran approx. 20 heat cycles a shaved set on my S2000 before something very unfortunate (not tire related) happened. Once up to temp (and it takes a while) they were very predictable up to that point and I was running about 1sec faster laps at Summit Point than w/ the Toyo's.

BTW--still a ton of tread on them. I would suspect I could get at least another 5-10 cycles out of them if I had a car to mount them on.

 

so the michelins are a second faster for you, thats great to hear.

 

I have been using one set of Sport Cups 225/50/15 on my ITR this year. They have at least 16 heat cycles with 25 minutes each plus a one hour Enduro, and have lots of tread left. Grip is very high, and I have recorded 1.310 g's peak on them while running 2:26 laps, with my data logger at Watkins Glen, and very often over 1.20 g's. I would recommend them highly. Might be more grip to be had with Hossier's, but for combo of grip and wear, they are well worth the money in my opinion. I will be running about 8 more 25 minute sessions on them plus a one hour Enduro at Mosport, and I am sure they will have enough tread.

A word of warning: I would not recommend them in wet conditions. Damp is OK, wet is not. Michelin recommends cutting extra grooves in them for wet conditions. See their pdf file on their site.

Also pressures are fairly low for these tires compared to some other R compounds. 32 to 36 psi hot is the target, with a carcass temperature of 160-220 degrees. For my ITR, that meant cold pressures in the range of 26 psi front and 27 psi rear to start with. I have been running 2.3 degrees negative camber on them.

 

Peripheral question: Is pulling 1.2 g's (on average) okay on a car without a baffeled oil pan? Did you have these heatcycled or shaved? And, you don't drive on them to the track, do you?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you have these heatcycled or shaved? And, you don't drive on them to the track, do you?</TD></TR></TABLE>

They dont need to be shaved and i've heard of them being driven to the track.

 

thats exactly what i asked for, great in depth description of the tires.

 

I don't know about baffled oil pan with 1.2 g's. I will think about it! Oil light never cames on, but who knows.

I do not drive these tires to the track on my ITR, but I do on the fronts for my NSX since I can't carry all four spares. I did not get them shaved or heat cycled, and this was one of the reasons I bought them. Michelin in their pdf file says gains are marginal at best for heat cycling before driving them, and only very slight for shaving. This made the choice much more interesting on a cost basis compared to tires that need shaving and heat cycling. Just buy a set of Khumo or Toyo R compounds, shave and heat cycle them, and then compare cost per mile on track and Michelin's looked like the best choice to me. I have a friend in the BMW club and he tried RA-1's and the Sport Cups on his E36 M3 and found the Michelins to have much more grip. I have not done a direct comparison, but my data logger sure likes the Michelins, as does my rear end.

I put up a post showing the setup on my ITR, which is at:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=593771

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by descartesfool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know about baffled oil pan with 1.2 g's. I will think about it! Oil light never cames on, but who knows.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The factory oil light might as well be a green "$$$" light.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Peripheral question: Is pulling 1.2 g's (on average) okay on a car without a baffeled oil pan? Did you have these heatcycled or shaved? And, you don't drive on them to the track, do you?
</TD></TR></TABLE>Depends on how good the stock oil pan is. I've run the PSCs, and tires much stickier, and not had problems yet. I might be concerned on a highly banked track.

I found the Michelins to be a great track tire, but for me not worth the extra cost over Kumho Victoracers. $1000/set vs. $600/set in standard S2000 sizes. Both tires performed about equal on the track, with the Kumhos holding the edge when not fully heated up, like at an autocross, which I also do. In my hands the Michelins only lasted about 25% longer than the Kumhos, so for no performance advantage, weren't worth it. The 225/50-16 Michelin is a bit narrower and a few pounds lighter than the Kumho.

A great tire though, lots of panache. Better on the street than the other R-comps. Definitely NOT faster than Hoosiers, don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In my hands the Michelins only lasted about 25% longer than the Kumhos, so for no performance advantage, weren't worth it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you have to pay $50 to mount/balance your tires this also can come into play as well regarding cost. Victoracers will last 4-6 weekends on track depending on how heavy the car is and whether you overheat and obliterate the tires from what i've seen. If you could get 8-10 weekends on a set of the michelins then thats a whole year of HPDE's probably (for most of us). Also saves the tires getting hard in side all winter and having to deal with Formula V come spring time over buying a 2nd set towards the end of the season that doesnt get used up all the way.

RJ

 

True, true. To each his own. For me Kumhos last about 4 track days and a couple autocrosses. The Michelins lasted a bit longer (only ever used one set) and a rear succumbed to a nail before cording, despite being mostly bald for some time.

I followed the recommended temps and alignments, but they just didn't last as long for me as they do for some others. I work tires pretty hard but don't really do much sliding or brake lockup...