for a b18c
all motor with high CR or at least 12.3CR
Toda Spec D cams
what are some good management systems or upgrades to run larger injectors (like 440cc)
besides hondata , i really dont want to run hondata - rather not say ....
like greddy
aem
or im rather of getting a VAFC (which wont allow to run bigger injectors)
since i want to squeez more power out of my set up
thanks

 

i know for almos the same price i can run greddy unit instead of the VAFC , which can tune the car a lot better .
has anyone ran greddy unit ?

 

Apexi Power FC is another option

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rob :190: &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Apexi Power FC is another option</TD></TR></TABLE>

has any one run this on all motor ???
any one running something besides hondata ???

 

Jack at http://www.p1auto.com is a big supporter of PFC, does great things with it. check the "hondata vs FC" thread in this forum from a few days ago


edit- here ya go: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=576701

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rob :190: &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jack at http://www.p1auto.com is a big supporter of PFC, does great things with it. check the "hondata vs FC" thread in this forum from a few days ago


edit- here ya go: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=576701</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for the info
are there any others compare to aem or even the greddy unit ??

 

greddy unit is good because you're tuning off your stock maps.

AEM, well pretty much the same boat as the greddy since it comes with base maps.

Greddy is a whole lot cheaper though.

 

Greddy Emanage = AFC
PowerFC = AFC unless you get the logit software, not to be confused with fc commander

These are what you want:

AEM
hondata
Motec
Haltech
TEC3
FAST
Autronic

 

PowerFC = AFC

Steve, you still kill me...

Power FC or any of the others Steve noted will work fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> PowerFC = AFC

Steve, you still kill me...

Power FC or any of the others Steve noted will work fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im convinced you wee-todds cant read.
Either what i write or the PowerFC instructions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Im convinced you wee-todds cant read.
Either what i write or the PowerFC instructions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They read it and excuse half of it as an extremely biased opinion.

The power FC even with correction factors, not using the datalogit has enoug A/F control to handle most anything NA and a few things FI. That said the power FC with the Datalogit is not only as powerful as the others but it and the AEM are tune on the fly which a lot of systems lack. Not a lot of need to tune on the fly at most levels but there is an inherent hassle with other options.

I would really like to know your dislike of the hondata system. Is it the system or the tuners in your area?



Modified by Asahi at 10:16 AM 8/7/2003

 

Either what i write or the PowerFC instructions.

An "AFC" (last time I checked) can not control rev limit, idle, base timing, timing maps, etc.....

So to me, a Power FC is a standalone that is plug and play and does not need a bunch of chips and burner and laptop and etc.......


use what you will, but refer to the comparo that P1 did and you be the judge

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Greddy Emanage = AFC
PowerFC = AFC unless you get the logit software, not to be confused with fc commander

These are what you want:

AEM
hondata
Motec
Haltech
TEC3
FAST
Autronic</TD></TR></TABLE>

So SgT for out of all of this which would you prefer , dont include hondata since m staying away from it (rather not say or discuss....
also for the amount of money ...
So greddy system will it be consider like the apex VAFC , and does it allow you to run bigger injectors like 440cc
or im rather of going with the AEM ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Greddy Emanage = AFC
PowerFC = AFC unless you get the logit software, not to be confused with fc commander</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to disagree on the PowerFC=AFC jibe , the PowerFC isn't as full featured as say the Hondata and AEM ECU but it has features far beyond the AFC:-

AFC can't change ignition timing PowerFC can
AFC can't change rev limiter PowerFC can
AFC can't change idle setting (inc elec load setting) PowerFC can
AFC can't compensate for larger injectors by changing 4 numbers (for I4 motors) PowerFC can
AFC can't change fueling on a 400 cell grid (only 200 needed for NA) PowerFC can
AFC can't change fueling for acceleration enrichment PowerFC can
AFC can't change fueling on water temp for cold running PowerFC can
AFC can't change crank fueling on water temp for cold start PowerFC can
AFC can't be used as boost controller PowerFC can (with addon)

The way PowerFC allows you to change fuel for revs and PIM/load isn't even the same as the AFC does it.

And most importantly the PowerFC controls the injectors directly, where as the AFC fudges the MAP signal to get the standard ECU to adjust fueling.

I agree the the FC-Datalogit software amd box enhances the use of the PowerFC, but most tuning can be done on the FCCommander handset, it's trickier and more time consuming but it can be done.

 

I'd put the PowerFC into the stand-alone cat. as well. Of course, Hondata uses a stock Honda ECU and isn't a full replacement, but I know you'll be pissed if I say it's a piggyback or a chip and not call it a standalone...

to me though.. standalone doesn't need anything but some wiring into the car's harness.. no P28 shell, etc. but that's all semantics I suppose.

Oh, and no love for the Wolf3D?

 

PowerFC has no fuel control except with the logit hack or PowerXL software.
This one fact makes it completely useless imo.

Spoon1: if you want plug in, get AEM, if you dont care get motec, autronic, or whatever.
Stay away from greddy emanage though.
But, make sure you have a GOOD tuner ready.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PowerFC has no fuel control except with the logit hack or PowerXL software.
This one fact makes it completely useless imo.

Spoon1: if you want plug in, get AEM, if you dont care get motec, autronic, or whatever.
Stay away from greddy emanage though.
But, make sure you have a GOOD tuner ready.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks , i believe my best choice is the AEM which is what im getting (just need to save some since is not cheap hehe)
and i do have the tuner , i will do a base run base on what im running and then one with AEM management system and also larger injectors and also larger fuel pump(250bhl) which i can benefit .... and see what my gains are i hope i can reach some good #'s

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PowerFC has no fuel control except with the logit hack or PowerXL software.
This one fact makes it completely useless imo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Excuse me, no fuel control???? What's your definition of fuel control?

The PowerFC allows you to adjust fueling by:- RPM, MAP voltage, and a 20x20 cell grid, or by fudging the injector size calcs, using just the FCCommander!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Excuse me, no fuel control???? What's your definition of fuel control?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Direct access to fuel maps.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The PowerFC allows you to adjust fueling by:- RPM, MAP voltage, and a 20x20 cell grid, or by fudging the injector size calcs, using just the FCCommander!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Those are "correction" maps. The AFC part of the powerFC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Direct access to fuel maps.

Those are "correction" maps. The AFC part of the powerFC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Could you explain exactly what the disadvantage of "correction" maps are as long as the AFR is adjusted to the desired number? Am I missing something in not seeing a difference between a correction number and a direct fuel map on 99% of the cars on this board?

Seriously, I don't see the difference but you definitely know stuff I don't.

 

Tony The Tiger uses a Apexi Power FC on his 2.0L ITB GSR. You might want to PM him for specific info.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But, make sure you have a GOOD tuner ready.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well said... I am using hondata, but my second choice is the AEM and I am interested in trying it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Could you explain exactly what the disadvantage of "correction" maps are as long as the AFR is adjusted to the desired number? Am I missing something in not seeing a difference between a correction number and a direct fuel map on 99% of the cars on this board?

Seriously, I don't see the difference but you definitely know stuff I don't.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd agree with you there is little difference when considering the PowerFC, as it controls the injector duty cycle directly, compared to the AFC which "influences" the injector cycle by adjusting sensor signals to the ECU.

PowerFC is nothing like AFC in actual operation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'd agree with you there is little difference when considering the PowerFC, as it controls the injector duty cycle directly, compared to the AFC which "influences" the injector cycle by adjusting sensor signals to the ECU.

PowerFC is nothing like AFC in actual operation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As i said, unless you have powerXL or the logit hack then you are not controlling duty cycle directly.
The correction maps are the "influencing" you refer to.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As i said, unless you have powerXL or the logit hack then you are not controlling duty cycle directly.
The correction maps are the "influencing" you refer to. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I ment the AFC alters the voltage from the PIM sensor received by the ECU the, the ECU in turn changes the duty cycle according to what it believes the PIM voltage to be (which has been changed by the AFC)

On a PowerFC the base map cell, correction map cell, PIM volt adjustment, rpm adjustment, and injector adjustment, are used to directly calculate the injector duty at a particular cell/point.

This is in no way the same as sending an adjusted voltage to an external unit (i.e. the standard ECU) as the AFC does.