I will be upgrading my fuel system soon and would appreciate some suggestions on the subject. I have decided to go with an aeromotive external pump and I need a setup that will keep it from starving.

A few things I was considering in order of preferance:

1. A small fuel cell like this one used for a surge tank (see item 2) with the stock pump supplying fuel to it.
Pros : Seems to be the easiest to do.
Cons: Is it adequite? Maybe, use something other than a stock pump to feed the cell/surge tank?
2. A surge tank using the stock fuel pump from the stock gas tank to feed the surge tank like this.

3. A fuel cell of a greater capacity either in trunk or preferably in stock tank location.

4. A sump welded to my stock tank like this one.


If #1 is adequite I think that would be the easiest for me to do - opinions - advice - links - flaming

Before anyone askes yes I did a search, and different people prefer different things,
(My main question is will #1 or #2 above be adequite for a high (500+) hp forced induction car AND for hard cornering, and I would like people's opinions and advice - those of you who have already done something similar)
and no this is not going to be a 200hp car my mother drives
BTW, I have read https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=554581


EDIT: Can someone recommend a good fuel rail to go with my setup.

 

I just don't know about using the stock pump to the surge tank - maybe I need another type of pump - the diagram under #2 says "no pressure just flow".....
obviously, my aftermarket pump will use more fuel than the stock one can deliver, ::sigh::
maybe I should just go with FFgeof's idea " a billet gas tank plate that has a fuel pickup sock from a really really big engine. The pickup sock feeds a -10 which you just run to your fuel pump. This means no sump issues, and you dont have to pull the tank. "

opinions?

 

surge tank all the way...get a holley "blue" pump to feed the low pressure/no pressure side. I'm figuring out how to feed it at the moment, but you will NEVER have any starvation issues unless your high G turns last for many miles.

Ben

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bnjmn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">surge tank all the way...get a holley "blue" pump to feed the low pressure/no pressure side. I'm figuring out how to feed it at the moment, but you will NEVER have any starvation issues unless your high G turns last for many miles.

Ben</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the advice on the pump - do you know any place that sells a premade surge tank? It would save a lot of time making one.

edit: Maybe that link I posted sells them, they list that they take credit cards

 

how much power are you putting out....? if your are putting out fairly excessive power, then yes a surge tank will be appropriate. but if you are running under 50% more power then stanard, then an upgrade higher flowing fuel pump should do you trick just fine.

 

I don't know a place that sells them, sorry. You can but a catch can and have a couple fittings welded on for not too much $$ though. And this is the reply I got from Holley regarding the need for a gravity feed...makes things a whole lot easier-

------Original Message-----
Sent: 8/5/2003 9:15:01 AM
Subject: Need to gravity feed?

Is it absolutely necessary to gravity feed a Holley "Blue" fuel pump?
What about this setup- the fuel pump is mounted lower then the fuel tank,
but the feed line goes up through the top of the tank and then down to the
fuel pump?

Reply-

Yes that will work as long as there is no resriction between the pump and
the tank.


You'll only NEED a surge tank for road racing/high G situations or if you want to run your fuel tank on next to empty for some reason. I did it for that and it is a more reliable, easier, and cheaper setup than welding in a sump and using high pressure braided lines to/from the tank to the fuel rail.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by one more chance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much power are you putting out....? if your are putting out fairly excessive power, then yes a surge tank will be appropriate. but if you are running under 50% more power then stanard, then an upgrade higher flowing fuel pump should do you trick just fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

right, I know - this is going on a car with 500+ hp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b3435 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(My main question is will #1 or #2 above be adequite for a high (500+) hp forced induction car AND for hard cornering, and I would like people's opinions and advice - those of you who have already done something similar)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what power it puts out will be determined when it is tuned. But like I said,
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b3435 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and no this is not going to be a 200hp car my mother drives</TD></TR></TABLE>
not to be a ***** but, did you read the thread?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bnjmn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know a place that sells them, sorry. You can but a catch can and have a couple fittings welded on for not too much $$ though. And this is the reply I got from Holley regarding the need for a gravity feed...makes things a whole lot easier-

------Original Message-----
Sent: 8/5/2003 9:15:01 AM
Subject: Need to gravity feed?

Is it absolutely necessary to gravity feed a Holley "Blue" fuel pump?
What about this setup- the fuel pump is mounted lower then the fuel tank,
but the feed line goes up through the top of the tank and then down to the
fuel pump?

Reply-

Yes that will work as long as there is no resriction between the pump and
the tank.


You'll only NEED a surge tank for road racing/high G situations or if you want to run your fuel tank on next to empty for some reason. I did it for that and it is a more reliable, easier, and cheaper setup than welding in a sump and using high pressure braided lines to/from the tank to the fuel rail.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, thats some great info. so I guess I can feed the holley pump from where the stock pump used to be and mount the pump under the car.

The catch can is a good idea, I was also trying to find a small fuel cell but so far the smallest ones I have found are polyethylene.

What size is your surge tank, and what do you think the minimum size is?
This site says about .5-1 liter.
http://toyotaperformance.com/surge_tank.htm

 

Mine is 3"x9"...I forgot what it works out to but I think nearly a liter. I was paranoid I might sometime get stuck on a 5 mile skid pad.

My surge tank hasn't been welded yet but it was easy to make- cut a section of 3" aluminum pipe, cut 2 3" circles with a jig saw and then I drilled holes where the fittings go. I have a friend who is goign to weld the aluminum, but otherwise I think it is pretty expensive- $50-80 were a couple quotes I got.

 

I have a crappy gaseless mig welder, maybe I'll try my luck and weld myself one, only made out of steel, I would hate to see what I would do to the aluminium.

But if it's really ugly, I'll shell out the money - hmmm, I have a friend who has a friend who is a welder.....

BTW, thanks for your help. What are you using for the low pressure lines?

 

3/8" aluminum lines...$20 for 25 feet and then using -6AN tube nuts for all the connections.

Ben

 

Before changing to a T72 and a BG pump one of my RX-7 friends useda surge tank with a Walbro GSS342 supplied by another GSS342 in the fuel tank. This setup was used for more than a year on a 500+whp RX-7 with (2) 1680cc and (2) 850cc injectros.

 

I'll be using a Walbro GSL 342 after the surge tank, hard to beat for $140. I suppose you could even get by with a stock pump and plumb in the stock lines to the surge tank assuming you have a 1 liter surge tank or so. Unless you plan on boosting for miles at a time it should easily handle anything you'd throw at it on the street. I'll be tracking my car extensively, plus a Holley blue pump is pretty cheap.

 

Surge tank works very well if you do a lot of hard cornering, but if you don't I just bought a jaz drag race fuel cell with a sump in the back and that works fine.

 

Surge tank works excellent on hard launching drag cars too

 

do a search their was just a reply on this any way i just did mine i put a -10 fitting in my factory tankgoing to a -10 tee out of the tee one end went to the fuel filter and the other end went back to the top of the tank inside the car where the factory pump goes in the tank, and i pulled the factory pump off and just used the sealing ring itself that goes over the tank ,i drilled a hole big enogh for a -10 bulk head straight fitting to go in and droped a -10 peice of braided hose in the tank so now the pump has a gravity fed system ( from the sumpeed -10 i put in the bottom) and a siphon system coming from the top of the tank when the pump is on ......if you just use the sump it will starve the pump every time you hit the brakes on you car and if you use a sump like the one from summit or jegs it will be to low for the pump to suck gas out of it you must use a fitting only comming outr of the bottom of the tank i had mine welded in ...if confusing let me know ill post pics

 

pics are always welcome

 

I'm assuming a lot of you have hatchbacks? For coupe owners like myself im considering the 'saver' 8gal fuel cell from ATL since welding in a firewall is no big deal for me.



They have a surge tank addon for it... and for someone like me who likes to opentrack .. I would have no choice but to get it. Just seems like a neat idea to fill up my empty spare well AND dump my OEM fuel system at the same time.