I brough my car to Neetronics in Toronto, the ONLY hondata dealer. Paul was the guy tuning my car out. Well first problem is that he has a clayton 4 wheel dyno, and he said my car was too low to get a reading on it. So I can't tell how much whp I got, anyways, he then start tuning 1/8 throttle, 1/4 throttle fuel . Now he did it with jsut the feel of the car running on the roller, wihtout graph or anything. Can this be done?? I ask him he said he can feel if the car is running well or not, he did have a wideband sensor hook up. But thatz about it, I see him chanign the fuel numbers but I have no idea what he did. After he got it all done, jsut about to put the chip back into my hondata stage 2. It won't take it, the car won't idle, it will jsut stall. He said my hondata is not working somehow, he place the chip in a S200 and it worked. Now, first thing, should I even go back to him? consider that I can't see a whp #, i ca'nt even see the graph. What should I do? another tuner?

 

u don't nesecarilly need a hp figure to tune a car. if he was looking at wideband o2 numbers, he could see how your a/f was sitting as he set your parameters. I can understand someone who tunes cars day in day out being able to hear certain things by ear- no different then driving inside the car w/ the wideband hooked up and listening for detonation while reading the numbers. Just think of him using his ears to tune as equal to you driving down the road, and you suddenly hear a distinct sound coming from the car- it alarms you enough to pull over and check. Anyone else who is not familiar to your car's noises would have never picked up that sound. follow what im saying? But no, you dont need hp/tq graphs to tune a car. hell, thats what i do on my own car- slap the wideband on- go make some runs on the highway and tune on the fly. I still dont have a hp or tq graph...just 1/4 mile timeslips to show the results.

only time i would say a hp/tq reading is necesary is when you have the car allready safely tuned- and your trying to squeeze the last hp or torque number out of the car. then you need to see the graphs and see how richening or leaning out the fuel effects the graph.

 

ok thanx for the quick repost. So what you are saying is, this method does work, nice to know.
anyone wiht more thought?

 

Partial throttle whp/wtq numbers probably don't mean anything to you anyways
Seriously, if your car is too low to clear the dyno roller, maybe you should consider raising your car.

 

yeah, i wouldnt consider him much of a tuner if he doesnt have a wideband....

 

Tuning with a wideband is good as long as he knows about what AFR your car makes power at. My ITR makes best power at 13.7-13.8:1 AFR. Like someone else mentioned tuning partial throttle would not produce any numbers on the dyno anyway.

For your other problem . . . The S200 and the old Stage (2,3,4) systems use different programming. If he has the newer Software and system then he has to tune your car with his romulator then "save as"the file as an der Stage 2 file before he burns it (Kinda like saving a Microsoft Word 2000 file as a MS Word 97 File so someone else can read it). Ask him if he did this. Make sense? If he did come back and we will make some other best guesses.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lePetitePrince &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I brough my car to Neetronics in Toronto, the ONLY hondata dealer. Paul was the guy tuning my car out. Well first problem is that he has a clayton 4 wheel dyno, and he said my car was too low to get a reading on it. So I can't tell how much whp I got, anyways, he then start tuning 1/8 throttle, 1/4 throttle fuel . Now he did it with jsut the feel of the car running on the roller, wihtout graph or anything. Can this be done?? I ask him he said he can feel if the car is running well or not, he did have a wideband sensor hook up. But thatz about it, I see him chanign the fuel numbers but I have no idea what he did. After he got it all done, jsut about to put the chip back into my hondata stage 2. It won't take it, the car won't idle, it will jsut stall. He said my hondata is not working somehow, he place the chip in a S200 and it worked. Now, first thing, should I even go back to him? consider that I can't see a whp #, i ca'nt even see the graph. What should I do? another tuner?</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmmm - interesting.... I am condsidering going to Paul once my intake arrives.... I already have the Hondata odb1 ecu and s200 system.... maybe I should re-consider..... how low is your car????? Does Paul seem like he knew what he was doing?

 

If he is really "tuning by ear" and trying to listen for detonation, run - don't walk - away. Most of the detonation in the mid-higher rpm's, where is matters the most, cannot be heard by the human ear, period! If you are running any boost, trying to listen for detonation is a recipe for disaster. "Road tuning" without dyno #'s is just fine to get a base tune, but the wideband o2 sensor is always essential. When my hondata installer "road tuned" my car (with a wideband), he did such a good job that we only squeezed another 3-4whp when we finally made it to the dyno for the final tweaks.

 

no my car is not LOW at all~! really, is not, the problem is his dyno machine, is really old and is a 4-wheel dyno type. All 4 wheels go on to 4 roller, and then the it sink down. The only way any car could make it is STOCK height. Hell, I spend 6 hrs there that day, left with no chips, no program, no graph, no #......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lePetitePrince &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no my car is not LOW at all~! really, is not, the problem is his dyno machine, is really old and is a 4-wheel dyno type. All 4 wheels go on to 4 roller, and then the it sink down. The only way any car could make it is STOCK height. Hell, I spend 6 hrs there that day, left with no chips, no program, no graph, no #......</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm... Edwin from this board had his R tuned at Neetronics.... his car is low, he did not mention he had any issues getting onto the dyno.....

Well, anyone recommend any other tuner in Toronto that can handle Hondata???

 

On the no chips issue let us know if you ask him about saving as the chip program to an older version.