I have spoon springs on bilstein shocks. All the fellow we-todds tell me to get rid of them. They are expensive as compared to other springs. Corey instructed me at Expo and said my car has mad understeer. Is this the beef? What would you change to if you were me? back to stock?

 

why would you change back to stock? im sure spoon springs have got to be better then that..! Id say, as long as the springs arent super el cheapo..all that matters is the spring rate and how well they are matched to the shocks....
-10k

edit: wow one bump and you got some good replys!


Modified by 10K2HVN at 8:03 PM 6/24/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 10K2HVN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why would you change back to stock? im sure spoon springs have got to be better then that..! Id say, as long as the springs arent super el cheapo..all that matters is the spring rate and how well they are matched to the shocks....
-10k</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock rates are even front and back (well once the back compresses past the progressive coils). The car will handle more neutrally with the stock springs. I greatly prefer the stock springs over the spoons. However, for a mostly street car, the spoons are fine imo.

 

i prefer understeering than going into a tail spin.

and imho if you brake enough prior to the turn, you will be just fine.

its certainly a different feeling, but i'd be very hardpressed and skeptical if someone told me they were faster around X turn or X lap because of change of springs.

if they make you feel driving = comfy...then so be it.

i personally do not see how the spoom springs would understeer more than stock, given that they have the same characteristics.....front/rear springs have the same rates as one another. (relatively comparing), and rear is progressive.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Marc, what do <u>you</u> think about how your car handles? That's what matters.

On a primarily street driven car in the hands of a relative novice, it'll just depend

</TD></TR></TABLE>

George, yes, I am a novice and I like how my car handles, but when a much better driver in Corey says something, of course I'm going to listen to try and better my skills and handling of my car. I'd like to get involved in more track events, but money is always tight with the healthy car payment + mortgage.

As always, thanks for your insight

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soup **** &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i prefer understeering than going into a tail spin.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you Soup. I'm use to the understeer and have gotten stupid sometimes and pulled the e-brake around some corners (that I'm VERY familiar with around town) just to try and learn what the car feels like sliding out. I like it, but at the same time, it feels a little TOO uncomfortable at time. Tail spins would be bad.

 

Marc: Just keep the spoom springs. I never said to toss em, just that you'd be tossing the stock shocks shortly with them

 

matrix springs from summit at $114 a set are your friend. you should just swap them out, shouldnt take long

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soup **** &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i prefer understeering than going into a tail spin.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
drifting is the key !!
i guess you dont like FR too much

 

[QUOTE=RealTypeR]

I'd like to get involved in more track events, but money is always tight with the healthy car payment + mortgage.
[QUOTE]

You left out all those 1-800-flowers burners... $5/ dozen side of the road rosesownz j00 and she will never know the difference.

 

A mildly rear stiff setup isnt going to make the *** end slide out every time you turn the wheel. What it will do is make the car a little easier to drive since the car wants to turn instead of push, and as long as you stay on the throttle when you're mid corner and dont abruptly lift, you wont get bitten by it. Now if you want to get crazy like corey and warren, yeah their setups are a little less forgiving. But a setup similar to GK's wouldnt be hard to learn.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RealTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have spoon springs on bilstein shocks. All the fellow we-todds tell me to get rid of them. They are expensive as compared to other springs. Corey instructed me at Expo and said my car has mad understeer. Is this the beef? What would you change to if you were me? back to stock?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i would put spoon springs on stock itr shocks and sell the bilstein shocks.

 

street car, keep em'

track car, listen to george!

running stock cause i'm broke and there good enough for me!!

 

Do you happen to know what the part number for the bilstein shock for the Rear is? And where did you buy them from? Is this a good price for the rear?

http://www.autocarparts.com/part/828/2/

 

My car understeers as well, mainly due to camber problems I have(more negative in rear than front) which Im trying to work out. I have never taken my car to the track unfortunately, but there are some roads around this area where you can see what your car is capable of(or not capable of). I know, everyone will want to tell me to keep it on the track but trust me I use very good judgement and I dont do it often. Im not sure how bad your "push" is in the front, but I can tell you that I can make the front tires lose traction before the rear, and if I get hard on the gas, the tires will just light up around the turns. It sucks and I hate it. I think first I might try a upper rear strut tower bar though to see if that helps. If that doesnt work, the only other option I can think of as of is to lower the car more(which I really dont wanna do) to get more camber in front, and run a camber kit in the rear so the front has more negative camber than the rear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My car understeers as well, mainly due to camber problems I have(more negative in rear than front) which Im trying to work out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You want more negative camber in the front - more grip up there, more rotation in the rear.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never taken my car to the track unfortunately, but there are some roads around this area where you can see what your car is capable of(or not capable of). I know, everyone will want to tell me to keep it on the track but trust me I use very good judgement and I dont do it often.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good judgement or not, you wont really know the handling capabilities of your car until you do get on track. 90mph into the brake zone for T4 or flat foot it through the kink at beaverun and you'll find out pretty quick if your car is pushing or not.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Im not sure how bad your "push" is in the front, but I can tell you that I can make the front tires lose traction before the rear</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can do this in a miata if you blow into a corner too hot.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and if I get hard on the gas, the tires will just light up around the turns. It sucks and I hate it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No matter how much grip and suspension setup a FWD car has, it will still exhibit this problem. Not going to be solved really, and is more dependent on driver input than vehicle setup.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think first I might try a upper rear strut tower bar though to see if that helps. If that doesnt work, the only other option I can think of as of is to lower the car more(which I really dont wanna do) to get more camber in front, and run a camber kit in the rear so the front has more negative camber than the rear. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Throwing parts at a 'problem' hoping to fix it really isnt the solution.

Why do you need an 'optimized' suspension setup on the street anyways? I'd spend the money on a HPDE instead.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr1244 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i would put spoon springs on stock itr shocks and sell the bilstein shocks.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

What? I had this set up for about 8 months and didn't like it. I made a review of it one time. Spoon springs on stock shocks 25K miles later...

and to answer one of the questions above, I got the bilsteins from shox.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you intend to pursue track driving, as I did, then you are going to either want to discard the heavy front Spoon springs for some other heavy <u>rear</u> springs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wait a minute. So you are saying that track driving requires you to have a rear-bias setup??? That's not right. It may be popular to have a rear-bias setup, but it isn't the only way, you know that!

I know you went on to say something about adding upgrades to the spoon springs, but I'd say junk those springs and decide: front-bias or rear and get the appropriate setup from there. I personally do not like lifting to have the rear end step out. Well, I like it when it is predictable, but with rear-bias setups, I feel very uncomfortable. I personally would rather have a neutral setup where the front has just about endless traction, like Wai's setup.

Anyhow, it is up to you and what you want.

 

Understeer scares the **** out of me. Oversteer you drive faster, because it requires more throttle to keep the car from misbehaving.

I had the car a little loose last sunday :-D There wasn't a single turn out Summit that I had to feed in more than about 80 degrees of steering.

Warren

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr1244 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i would put spoon springs on stock itr shocks and sell the bilstein shocks.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha that's one of the MOST RETARDED things I've read all week.

For the guy who asked about pricing and where to get them, just go to http://www.shox.com. They are good guys with good customer support and will match any price you find.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Good judgement or not, you wont really know the handling capabilities of your car until you do get on track. 90mph into the brake zone for T4 or flat foot it through the kink at beaverun and you'll find out pretty quick if your car is pushing or not.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Flat footing the kink at beaver.. i can attest to this one.. took me a bit to build confidence in my car on that portion of the track, but was great when I did..


RealTypeR, are those the spoon progressives that you have? The same ones Grandpa tried out?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

RealTypeR, are those the spoon progressives that you have? The same ones Grandpa tried out?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes.

 

E-brake will get rid of any of that pesky understeer Marc

keep what joo got , learn to drive on it then upgrade when you KNOW what you want out of your suspension , upgrades are so much better when the driver is ready for them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">E-brake will get rid of any of that pesky understeer Marc

keep what joo got , learn to drive on it then upgrade when you KNOW what you want out of your suspension , upgrades are so much better when the driver is ready for them.</TD></TR></TABLE>


come on jamie...you know he needs baggs.

the bishez will love them !